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Author Topic: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)  (Read 2073 times)

LuckyLuigi

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My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« on: September 20, 2010, 04:46:53 am »

After reading the saga of Boatmurdered I could not resist trying this game.
I did some reading untill I felt that I would be able to get started (playing 03.13.12b).
Everyone is saying Aquifiers suck so I set that to NO in the options and off went my dwarfs.

It turned out to be a really nice spot, a mountain with a brook running in the valley below :)
No sign of the fearsome carp.

My fortress quickly grew as I tried out many things. Getting the stairs to work took me ages (up was even harder) but eventually I understood the mechanics.

I did lots of things wrong and my fortress almost perished when my dwarves began starving en masse. I was farming all kinds of stuff but none of it was actually eatable. I didn't realize I'd run out of food as I had tons on booze and it was all stored on the food stockpile. When I seperated food from drink just 2 barrels of food remained for my 40 dwarves.
An emergency plump helmet production program and mass farmer training eventually reversed the situation (plump helmets coming out of my nose now).

I build my appartment complexes deep underground and then I decided to see if I could build an underground forest. During exploration I hit a damp wall.
Could this be the underground river I heard about ? I could use that to irrigate the forest level. Let's dig a hole and see...

Oh noes ! That is an aquifier !!! But I'd said NO in the options !? A torrent of water floods into my central stairwell while my miners flee for their lives.
Did I mention that I only had one central stairwell and all my apparentment complexes were on lower leves than the aquifier ?
Much FUN ensued as dwarves started drowning in their beds while I frantically started digging out the mountain in an attempt to lessen the flow of water so I could build a wall in front of my stairwell.
After a lot of FUN I got the wall build. Two of my appartment complexes are completely flooded, but one is only half flooded and the dwarves are refusing to leave their rooms.



I can't get to them as the stairwell is flooded up to exactly that level. Amazingly the dwarves that have not drowned are very happy due to the huge amounts of mist generated by the flooding stairwell.
A desperate effort is started to rescue my trapped dwarves. I dig another stairwell down from the top to -2z below the trapped level, then build a stairwell all the way down untill I hit molten rock. Then after a lot of trouble I manage to dig open the flooded stairwell from underneath. The water drops down the stairwell, hits the molten rock, and my dwarves are ecstatic once more as the stairwell is covered in mist.
The water in the half flooded appartment complex begins to drop ! Just before the hallway dries up the last surviving trapped dwarf dies from dehydration. FFFUUUNNNN !!!

After getting the fortress back in order I get flooded with immigrants and try to get the army set up which is hideously complicated. When I finally figure out how uniforms work it becomes easier. I don't dare train them for weapons that have no 'training' equivalent so 1 got 10 axedwarves, 10 marksdwarves and 10 speardwarves (pop ca.120).
I'm not sure what I'm training them for as nothing ever happ...



Uh oh...I think about half my military dwarves have any training at all, let alone equipment but as I can't seem to figure out how to get my bloody dwarves to stay inside the fortress I send out my army to attack the Hydra outside. By this time about 10 dwarves have been slaughtered outside.



FFFUUUNNN !!! My army gets slaughtered and I flee back after losing about 20 war dogs and 5 dwarves. Apparently 'wrestling' with a Hydra is not a good idea. Body parts and corpses are littered all over the mountainside.
I lost track of the Hydra and won't close the bridge with so many dwarves still outside. Eventually he runs into my fortress but walks into a Cage Trap.

Finally, a chance to rebui...



I frantically wall up all the entrances to the caverns.  There's still an access by air but I'm hoping it can't fly so I'm leaving it for now as that stairwell is currently vital for smooth fortress operation. It seems I guessed right...still my hunter keeps capturing cavern animals but I can't seem to find the gap in my defenses.

I refill my military and when the Elves show up I attempt to sell the Caged Hydra to them as I have no clue what to do with it. The Hydra promptly escapes from his cage, slaughters everyone and runs into my meeting hall/dining room.


(X marks Hydra position)

FFFUUUNNN !!! Everyone and his dog ends up fighting the Hydra who, after killing or maiming the majority of my population and my remaining wardogs finally dies. He takes a LOT of killing.


(Page 2 !  :o)

When the Hydra dies my fortress goes into tantrum spiral. Conveniently, everyone is close together in the dining room and armed so I lose another 10 dwarves to civil strife, aside from many acts of vandalism and cattle mutilation. It eventually peters out with 5 more dwarves dehydrating themselves to death next to a (working) well.

Right, let's get bac...



I close the bridge entrance of my fortress but I'm too late ! FFFUUUNNN !!! I totally luck out when a lucky shot from a Marksdwarf fells the Titan after it has done only light damage to the fortress.
I'm down to 85 dwarves now with a few heavily wounded that constrained to bed (never got round to setting up hospital). About 10 'walking wounded' and 5 wardogs. 20 of my military have perished. Three seasons migrants have not come to my fortress while I have 30 beds free  :D

Current projects :
- Build a new mega dining room with waterfalls to lure new migrants.
- Continue the underground forest/farming project.
- Add a Jail and maybe a hospital ?

Questions !!!  :o
- What do I do with those captured animals/monsters ? Also some cages have dead bodies in them.
- How do I get rid of refuse ? I build an Atom smasher but I can't designate the floor below the bridge as refuse pile. I dug out the ceiling but I can't designate in open space either...
- I can't seem to find Magnetite anywhere, all I find is gold gold gold. Around what level is it usually found ? I need iron something fierce !
- Half my fortress is a muddy and bloody mess. How do I get my chaps to actually clean up ?
- If I equip my soldiers with training AND real weapon will they use the training weapon for practice or will they hack each other to bits with the real weapons ? How do you do this ?
- Do goblins and kobolds show up if they are not in the civilization screen ?







« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 05:12:09 am by LuckyLuigi »
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LuckyLuigi

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2010, 05:02:37 am »

*whoops*
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Proteus

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 05:29:42 am »

...
Questions !!!  :o
- What do I do with those captured animals/monsters ? Also some cages have dead bodies in them.
- How do I get rid of refuse ? I build an Atom smasher but I can't designate the floor below the bridge as refuse pile. I dug out the ceiling but I can't designate in open space either...
- I can't seem to find Magnetite anywhere, all I find is gold gold gold. Around what level is it usually found ? I need iron something fierce !
- Half my fortress is a muddy and bloody mess. How do I get my chaps to actually clean up ?
- If I equip my soldiers with training AND real weapon will they use the training weapon for practice or will they hack each other to bits with the real weapons ? How do you do this ?
- Do goblins and kobolds show up if they are not in the civilization screen ?

Great story :d:
many fortresses would already have succumbed to a tantrum spiral after so much fun :D

As for your questions:
1. If you build the cages (i.e. build somewhere on the map and then choose the right cage) you are able to release their inhabitants...I assume this also goes for deads inhabitants. As for megabeasts and goblins in cages...as you already experienced it is a bad idea to try to sell them :D the only use you might get from them is, to put them into a zoo, or to use them as training partners for your military dwarves (by building the cage in some kind of arena, linking it to a lever and then release the inhabitant as soon as your military are assembled and the room is locked shut)

2. You have to use the "zones" menu (which you can access with AFAIK) and establish a dumping zone

3. Ores depend on the stone layers in your embark area (which is why it is important to check the stone layers before embark)...if you didnīt embark in an area with at least one sedimentary stone layer, you wonīt find any iron on your map (see also: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Stone_layers

4. Cleaning is automated...also dwarves will only clean underground areas, but not the overground ones. It might be a good idea to look for the tool dfhack ... it has the ability to clean all floor tiles of the map from blood and other fluids

5. Good question...according to some postings the choice between training and normal weapons seems to be a little bit buggy at the  moment...but rather in favor of training weapons...i.e. dwarves with training and normal weapons equipped might choose to attack the enemies with training weapons instead of the normal weapons they carry as well

6. Goblins and kobolds only show up after your first encounter with them...that is, only after your first stolen goods (or detected kobold thieves) you will see the kobolds in the civ screen and only after your first goblin snatcher/ambush/invasion the goblin civ will appear 
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Catastrophic lolcats

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 05:31:18 am »

I have to say for your first fortress you're really going good. 

Answers to the questions:

1) Number of ways to kill them. First off you'll want to dump them if they're wearing/holding anything and then reclaim them/the items. To release a caged animal build the cage with the building menu, hook it up to a level with mechanics and then pull the lever. Use them to train your military or throw them into a pit of wild animals, be creative.

2) The refuse pile won't work under a bridge. First build a drawbridge and place a garbage dump underneath it. Then anything you want deleted forever mark for dumping and pull the lever.

3) Minerals don't related directly to levels and instead relate to different layers of rock. However often you'll find different layers of rock the further you dig so keep striking the earth and the chance is you'll find what you need.

4) As of now, dwarves will not effectively clean. They only clean one square at a time and will often just spread the mess while doing so. There are a number of ways to control the mess.  Filling some channels near the entrance to your fort or at the booze/food stockpile with 3/7 water will wash off most of the blood (good for deadly blood monsters) before it has a chance to spread. There are some programs like dfhack that allow you to get rid of it if you feel like making it a bit easier for yourself.

5) In older versions dwarves used to hack each other to nothingness with real weapons. I even had a dwarf who lost both his arms and started biting the other dwarf...
However in 2010 the dwarves are a lot more caring of each other and will try not to injure each other. Therefore training weapons are useless and even if your dwarves do hurt each other a bit it stops the doctor's going rusty in their skills. For best results its universally agreed that the danger room (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Danger_room) is the best method to train dwarves.

6) Almost always. Some times they can all be wiped out or even rarer your nation can be allied towards them.


A few more notes: The farming problem can be avoided. Plump helmets are good for starting a fortress due to their high growing speed. This can become a problem as you often find yourself with too many of the bastards. Plump Helmets are also extremely low value and your dwarves will get sick of eating them. As your fortress grows and you get a better defence it's often worth it to invest in above ground farming like sun berries which you can get by slaying trading with elves.

Jails (gaols) are a feature I never bother with. As long as you don't appoint a sheriff nobody will be sentenced. Therefore if you ignore the demands nobles make your dwarves won't be beaten to near death and thrown into a cell to bleed out.

You may wish to limit the population in your next fortress via the init option. Therefore you can stop titan and forgotten beast attacks until your ready to deal with them, prefect for new players.

Also carp suck now.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 05:33:04 am by Catastrophic lolcats »
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EddyP

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 06:44:44 am »

It sounds like you relied on site finder to find an embark site. Don't - it's pretty much useless. About the aquifer - most likely there was an aquifer only on a small part of the map (with the majority ok, which is why site finder found it) and you breached it by accident.

In 2010 I only use training weapons when I'm using live victims (captured goblins) - it makes them last longer. But for dwarf vs dwarf training, real weapons are fine - they lightly tap each other and don't hurt each other.

Use this resource: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

In particular, I think you'll find this page useful http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Embark
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Tsarwash

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2010, 08:43:50 am »

Great story. more fun than I have had in a while.

Gaols are very easy to set up. just build a chain in a small room, then use Q to designate it a gaol. Better than having your sheriff beat everyone to death. Hospitals are much more tricky. Tables MUST be next to beds. Build (not stockpile) 6 - 8 bags or containers within the hospital zone. (B - V, I think it is) The dwarves ought to automatically, eventually fill the bags with thread, cloth, soap, (if you have any) and gypsum powder. (never shows up as in a hospital.) Soap is required to avoid infections. I find it easier to request lye off the liason.

Atomsmashers only need to be on one level. no digging or channeling required. Just make a 1 x 2 bridge that raises like a drawbridge.

Sounds like you may have breached an underground lake. there are quite a few of them usually. And normal steel or such weapons seem to be good for training, at least with experienced dwarves. I forgot to give my dwarves wooden axes, and they are all fine. Danger room filled with training spikes linked to one lever are good, quick ways of getting an experienced military very quickly.
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Psieye

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2010, 09:44:58 am »

Yes. Be certain whether your flood source is an aquifer or an ordinary underground lake/river. Though if you didn't get a cavern revealed on breaching, then it's an aquifer.
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Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

LuckyLuigi

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 10:08:51 am »

Thanks for your replies. I'll post an update soon (having lots of FUN, but hanging in there) but I had to share this.

Stray Wardog dodges cavern monster attack... :)
...into my almost bottomless "deathtrap" stairwell... :(
...proceeds to GIVE BIRTH MIDAIR to 5 puppies... :o
...all smash into bits of flesh and bone and a shower of blood when they finally reach the bottom.  ;D


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greycat

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 10:49:11 am »

Hospital stuff:
  • Don't make gypsum powder.  Don't buy any from traders.  Just avoid it entirely until it's fixed.  Make wooden splints instead.
  • Don't put tables or traction benches in the hospital until surgery is fixed.  Just put beds.  Surgery can take place in a bed.  They don't actually need an operating table.  If you build a table, they'll try to use it, and then you'll probably run into the "doc cancels surgery: patient not resting" loop.
  • When you build containers (it's {b} - {h} by the way) in the hospital, you should probably build one at a time.  Dwarves who are bringing supplies to a hospital go totally overboard on whatever is first on the list (typically thread).  You'll end up with 3 times as much thread as you asked for, totally filling up all the containers, leaving no room for soap, splints, buckets and so on.  But if you build just one container at a time, they'll fill the first one with thread, then the second with cloth, and so on.  So you can at least get closer to your storage thresholds.
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Proteus

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 11:22:52 am »

Surgery works fine...using traction benches AFAIK works also, at least in 0.31.12
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Gearheart

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2010, 11:31:47 am »

This is a very dwarfy first fortress.
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Psieye

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2010, 12:21:44 pm »

Tables and traction benches: place directly next to the beds. Optionally, all in a sealable room so the doctor and the patient have nothign else to do except get the healing done.
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Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

j0nas

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2010, 02:32:05 pm »

Epic story! :)

Regarding the smasher, if you have access to the floor above the smasher, it would be safer for your dwarves to designate(this is a zone, placed with..(i), I think) a junkpile on the floor next to a hole down to the 'smasher floor'.  They will then throw the garbage into the hole rather than leave it on the floor where the junk-area is(this only works with dumping, nothing else).  That way if you designate a lot of stuff for dumping, you won't accidentally smash any dwarves when they run under the smasher to place their items while you are in the process of smashing, as no dwarves will be moving on the same floor as the smasher.

You might have to turn 'dwarves gather garbage/refuse from the outside' on under the..I think it is (o)ptions menu, if you want to clean up the surface from various scattered body parts.  Otherwise anything marked for dumping on the surface will be ignored, I think.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 02:34:50 pm by j0nas »
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tolkafox

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2010, 04:08:51 pm »

I had the same problem on my first fortress with my brewer making too much booze, wound up with 300 booze and no food :/

I tried making everyone a farmer and mass planting plump helmets, but alas I was too late.
Second fortress I started off without an anvil because I wanted a male and female cows, I hope I get an anvil soon :9

Quick question, is there a way to designate the items a brewer uses? I would like him to only use my brew-only plants for an airtight automated food/booze production, but I can't think of a way. I know I can designate a stockpile around the still with the brew-only plants for priority, but when he runs out of those he'll move on to my food.
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: My First Fortress - Help ! ;)
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2010, 04:28:15 pm »

You can actually set what items can be brewed and what can be cooked in the z-Kitchen menu.

Also, I had a similar experience with a hydra attacking me before I knew what a military was.  Fortunately I had 30 war-dogs on hand, and it got swamped with canine aggression.  One of my dwarves didn't don any armor before engaging the hydra and got bitten in half, and the other one was wearing armor but no weapons and became a legendary wrestler.  I killed it eventually, and then captured a second hydra with a cage-trap.

When I tried to sell the hydra-cage to the elves, they proceeded to do just that.  They took the cage away and left the hydra loose.  Fortunately it got insta-killed by my axedwarf (somehow), and I ended up feasting on hydra-meat for the next two years.  Seriously, I had 1,000 hydra-meat in stockpile, and all my soap was hydra-soap.
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