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Author Topic: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.  (Read 6902 times)

Urist McIsaac

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2010, 07:38:31 am »

Start a post about medical drugs for DF. This one is about pipes and smoking tobacco like plants.
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Medicine Man

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2010, 07:40:55 am »

Start a post about medical drugs for DF. This one is about pipes and smoking tobacco like plants.
Maybe there could be a smoke plant that does the effects mentioned in my last post?
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Lord Vetinari

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #47 on: September 25, 2010, 07:57:26 am »

Dwarves are already addicted to booze. Maybe pipeweed can be another addiction, interchangeable with alcohol: dwarves require either booze or smoke to be content. If they have weed, they can do without booze and have no bad thoughts, and vice versa. Both booze and weed available simultaneously means an extra happy though.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 10:37:01 am by Lord Vetinari »
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harborpirate

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2010, 05:55:58 pm »

Start a post about medical drugs for DF. This one is about pipes and smoking tobacco like plants.

Right, I assumed you meant "pipe-weed" in the Tolkien sense. Which, as I mentioned earlier in the thread before being drowned out by stoners, I'd be all for; especially if it functioned much like alcohol already does. It would fit perfectly with the established theme of the game (not in the least because its loosely based on that universe anyway).

This is one of these times where throwing in too much of our modern knowledge [about the effects of various plants and smoking them] is a detriment to the feel of the game. Part of what makes DF fun is the little bits of mystery in the game; the ways that it differs from our own world and figuring out how they work. Underground crops, tower cap mushrooms and various beasts, for instance. Discovering the particular DF twist on those little elements of the fanciful or fantastical is part of what keeps the game from becoming dull.
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Urist McIsaac

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2010, 07:10:41 pm »

Start a post about medical drugs for DF. This one is about pipes and smoking tobacco like plants.

Right, I assumed you meant "pipe-weed" in the Tolkien sense. Which, as I mentioned earlier in the thread before being drowned out by stoners, I'd be all for; especially if it functioned much like alcohol already does. It would fit perfectly with the established theme of the game (not in the least because its loosely based on that universe anyway).

This is one of these times where throwing in too much of our modern knowledge [about the effects of various plants and smoking them] is a detriment to the feel of the game. Part of what makes DF fun is the little bits of mystery in the game; the ways that it differs from our own world and figuring out how they work. Underground crops, tower cap mushrooms and various beasts, for instance. Discovering the particular DF twist on those little elements of the fanciful or fantastical is part of what keeps the game from becoming dull.

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Auto Slaughter

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2010, 08:30:08 pm »

Maybe there could be a morphine like drug? You know, one that is extremely addictive but can cure most pain.

You're talking about opium - laudanaum and its other derivatives.  Heroin was actually originally for medicinal use.
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Eagleon

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2010, 10:03:15 pm »

Derp.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 10:05:48 pm by Eagleon »
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2010, 07:28:07 am »

Heroin was originally intended to be used to cure opium users of their addiction.

 ::)

Yeah, science marched all over that one...



As long as they are plant-based, and don't require any serious processing, I don't see any reason to disallow narcotics/hallucinogenics, and other such drugs.

Disallowing such drugs, for no realistic reason, would be just the same as putting something like crystal meth into the game, for no realistic reason.

I'm a little exhausted of this argument, so here's a Wall of Text.

This isn't a game that's being marketed specifically for kids, afterall. Young kids aren't all that likely to stumble upon it, either. And, as far as I know, ToadyOne isn't a parent.

I'd personally find the idea of raising, skinning, and eating kittens, to be a lot more traumatizing and damaging for a child to be exposed to, than adding a plant that "makes dwarfs act funny".

I would atleast hope that a little kid would better understand the concept of what a living kitten was, than what the extended possibility of longterm opium addiction could lead to.

I'd also rather explain to a child what opium was, than why Fuzzball's being served in a mushroom glaze... 

Disregarding for a moment that that's a situation I would never, ever, put myself into.

I certainly wouldn't be going out of my way to explain any concepts in the game that I would consider disturbing or troubling to a child, in the first place.

Because you'd have to go far out of your way to cause a child damage with this game. Because the game is barely comprehensible to an adult, unless that adult is already familiar with the game, and has actually sat down and played it.

One of the great advantages of ASCII. 

Our society has a pretty deep fascination with violence, and this is a game that contains violence. That doesn't make including such violence any more morally upstanding, or tasteful, than including drug use, or sex, or gambling, or crime, or alchohol abuse, or anything else. 

Not allowing drugs into any given game could be done as simply as not following the necessary actions that lead to any other processed plant item, in the game. If you don't want pigtail socks, don't grow pigtails. Don't harvest pigtails. Don't make a "create pigtail sock" job. Not allowing drugs would be every bit as simple, and would require zero special coding.

If you somehow ended up with drugs, through a bizarre chain of coincidences, then just disallow them, like you would any other object.

Anyone incapable of choosing not to make these kinds of choices for themselves, should probably not ever be allowed near the Internet.

I make the choice not to slaughter cats or dogs of any age, every time I play DF. It's there, it's available for me to use to my heart's sick content, and it would actually make the game easier, but it's simply an aspect of the game that I make the choice to avoid and disavow myself of, without demanding it's absence or removal from the game.

Drugs aren't any different, in any way shape or form.
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Spreggo

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2010, 07:33:47 am »

...This one is about pipes and smoking tobacco like plants.

SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2010, 07:47:23 am »

...This one is about pipes and smoking tobacco like plants.

Yeah, so was The Hobbit.

Actually, it should just be about pipes, only, without any speculation as to what anyone might put into said pipes.

That might have a snowball's chance of not evolving into a discussion about drugs, but so far, I haven't noticed any of the various other threads on this not turning to the subject of drugs.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 07:53:15 am by SirHoneyBadger »
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Mechanist

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2010, 07:52:27 am »

I think that you have a good point about it, but i would hate to see the internet parodies of DF stained with drugs along with the magma, the floods, the moods, the cats, and everything that is dwarfy.

Also i think that dwarves alreade consume insane ammounts of alcohol/mushrooms/"funny" stuff, and they seem quite resistant to it (besides of the strange drunken dwarfs o_O) so..

@ontopic: I would love to see the dwarves could make pipes and smoke in them (w/o any side effects, "funny" stuff, colors, etc.) adding happiness, but also i think they NEED to buy it from caravans/grow it adobeground
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2010, 07:55:10 am »

I don't understand what you mean about it being "stained" by drugs.

Being stained by cat's blood is better?

I can't recall many, if any, reviews of the game that have been remiss of mentioning the fate of cats in DF.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 07:58:55 am by SirHoneyBadger »
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Mechanist

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2010, 08:09:46 am »

Im sorry if i cant make me understand, i dont know how to propery say it in english.
I dont see the drugs as a good or bad thing, what im trying to say is that i think the game will loose some of it dwarfiness if it already came with things that will be stupidly idolatized by cancer. Ive seen mods with sexual content, body parts and such, that yes, they are more realistic and there is no visible reason to not put it in beyond more coding for the devs...  but if we have those things in vanilla DF also will attract all those pesky smokesexdrugshurrdurrrrrrr that im SURE that nobody wants, that stay only in the mod dev of each respective mod that contains something like that

sorry for the wall of text, and my cr@ppy english
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2010, 08:25:05 am »

No, you have a good point.

And your English has to be better than my...command of whatever your native language happens to be.
I'm awful with anything but English.

Furthermore, it's hardly a wall of text. Check out some of mine, sometime, for the real deal.

As long as the level of reality in the game isn't needlessly and arbitrarily being manipulated, in order to cater to particularly insipid anachronisms, then I'm very happy to see things like drugs be made optional.

As long as the option does exist.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 08:26:52 am by SirHoneyBadger »
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BaneOfKree

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Re: Pipe Crafting, Smoking.
« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2010, 08:51:24 am »

Include Tobacco under the 'Plant' Food subtype, and when this runs out, it will create negative thoughts among your dwarfs who smoke as they start to experience withdrawl, making them more susceptible to Tantrums. Might be a little better for the game than a load of stoned Dwarfs producing really low quality crafts from stuff they found on the floor they thought was 'kewl'.

If you were to implement any of this, you could create a new 'Zone' set for smoking, to ensure that it didn't annoy non-smoker Dwarves, although I don't think that they would be very dwarfy.
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