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[Deadmeat1471]

I see your point, but thats part of the whole strategy - build an early wonder? a mid wonder? a modern wonder? if they all lasted forever it would turn civ from history into a near fantasy game, where a great wall is slowing down the movement of T-90's

Still, its not soo bad, the point you made was fair enough.

[Fikes]

The thing Civ has boiled down to since at least civ 3, is resources. No iron, or copper? Hope you figure out gun powder soon.

At least with 5 this is changed a bit, not that it sounds like you can exhaust resource nodes.

Wonders are generally good, but often over rated. The great wall for instance, so long as you fog bust, you shouldn't have any problem with barbs.

[Neonivek]

How useful a wonder is strongly depends on how you are playing the game.

Building any which wonder is usually a bad strategy.

As for making it useless. An alternative that I would have liked is if its ability lessened or changed. I mean sure Shakespeare's theater is no longer relevant (Ignoring that it is the most anti-historical wonder in the entire series) but maybe later on it should increase chances of a cultural great or spread culture.

[Bluerobin]

I'd agree with benefits changing after a certain technology is researched. It's rare that something becomes completely useless, even if its purpose changes. They've actually done this with the Indian unique castle building. After Flight is researched it generates gold (presumably as a tourism thing). I'm not sure if flight obsoletes it though.

[subject name here]

holy **** the civilopedia is huge!

[Sowelu]

I dunno.  Saying "The Great Wall should become obsolete because it can't realistically stop tanks" is like saying "I shouldn't be able to upgrade my Warriors all the way up to Marines because surely they would have died of old age a long time ago".  In both cases, it's less about a specific building, and more about establishing a lasting tradition.

[Ivefan]

There is a bit of a difference between a brick wall trying to stop explosives and giving an army division new weapons.
It's not obsolete though, its a great tourist attraction =P

[Mephansteras]

Yeah, there are plenty of examples of army units with woefully out of date equipment all over the world and throughout history. In some cases it's because the unit is a tradition (like the Swiss Guard for the Pope, who still have Halbards) and in other cases it's because no one has bothered to pay for the unit to get decent stuff.

[Deon]

And in other cases it's just badass when you have sabre wielding bear riding infantry. They have psyonic powers anyway.

...

Okay no more drinking and watching Adult Swim in the night .

[Sowelu]

Well, what I was getting at is "building the Great Wall means establishing a cultural heritage of defense against outsiders, which presumably will continue to use additional technologies as they become available".

I mean, even in previous Civ games, once you built the Great Wall it's not like it instantly appeared along certain tile boundaries, and then stopped protecting outer cities once you expanded.  Wonders are mutable over time, they're symbolic.

[Zironic]

French is slightly overpowered. Back to back they have powerful unique units. If you focus on researching, it can give you a lethal advantage against most foes.

[Ivefan]

Well, what I was getting at is "building the Great Wall means establishing a cultural heritage of defense against outsiders, which presumably will continue to use additional technologies as they become available".

Well then it should drain resources for every upgrade/expansion of said wall, just like it costs to upgrade units, should it not?
Might not really work gameplay wise and I kinda don't really know what I'm debating for anyway, i just jumped in on the side that seemed more logical.

[Deadmeat1471]

I'll be France first.

[warhammer651]

Just started playing.

For my frst game I let the computer pick my civilization. I was Germany. Let me tell you, his ability makes for some easy early army building. Barbarian encampments are EVERYWHERE an a unit of warriors can take em down easy.

I wound up on a continent that is divided into two major parts with a small land bridge between them. on one side is me and my allied city-states (one cultural, one mercantile, and one militaristic that keeps giving me cannon fodder valuable troops. On the other is France (who seems to have alienated/Conquered EVERY city-state on his section (both military)).
The only thing standing between me kicking his ass? the goddamn land bridge. He built his third city (Orleans) right where it can slaughter my troops with two infantry to plug the gap (Cities act as shitty, immobile ranged units btw). The end result is that I'm on the defensive for most of our wars and waiting for him to get bored. So I started to focus exclusively on technology and reach the Renaissance while other nations have just entered the medieval age. Then I learn that Ships count as ranged units and can attack land units.

End result: one frigate bombards his troops guarding the land bridge (one-shoting anything that isn't in rough terrain) while the others pound Orleans into the ground. two cavalry charges later and I've steamrolled Orleans and begun Liberating^tm two city-states he conquered. If I can get every city-state on this continent on my side, I'm gonna shoot for a diplomatic victory.

Also: love some of the names for the achievements "It's Super effective" and "Say hello to my little friend" are my current favorites

[Flying Carcass]

Yeah, the 1 unit per tile limitation in the new civ has made choke points a key to defensive victory.

I built my English civ inside a mountain range and the terrain allowed me to impede the progress of two enemy armies, both of which were initially much larger than my army, coming from the east (ottomans) and the west (persians). Thanks to the hills and mountains, I was able to buy enough time to churn out enough units to overcome my adversaries and counter attack, forcing them to agree to a peace treaty with favorable terms for me (tribute of gold and resources).