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Author Topic: On Morality In Video Games  (Read 5028 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: On Morality In Video Games
« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2010, 12:43:43 pm »

Quote
The Aztecs didn't sacrifice hundreds because they liked it. They did it to stop the world from ending.

What?!?
He's only half right. While the Aztecs did think that the gods needed to be fed human blood to keep the world going, there is speculation that a good deal of their sacrifices were to send a message to both their own people and the Inca not the Inca, disregard that, that they were dominant over them.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 12:48:20 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

Eugenitor

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Re: On Morality In Video Games
« Reply #76 on: September 17, 2010, 12:53:41 pm »

Pretty sure most of the 20th Century was enough to keep those gods fed for a very, very long time.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: On Morality In Video Games
« Reply #77 on: September 17, 2010, 12:57:55 pm »

Pretty sure most of the 20th Century was enough to keep those gods fed for a very, very long time.
You don't get it. The priests had to sacrifice those fellas on the altars, not just let them kill each other and lie rotting in the mud.
When you're a hungry god, you want to eat at a restaurant, and not from dumpsters.
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The Willow Wisp

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Re: On Morality In Video Games
« Reply #78 on: September 17, 2010, 02:47:13 pm »

I understand where DarkJay is coming from (at least I think I do), but his idea does seem to have the one fatal flaw of possibly taking options way from the player.

I personally believe that games should have a "Morality" system for NPCs and a "Reputation" system for Players. Here is a rather basic example of how I see it in my head. If I kill/capture a mass murderer who has escaped from prison, the reason would alter my reputation. If I killed him to prevent him from escaping and killing again, that would go on my REP. If I killed him for revenge for something he did, that would go on the REP. The same if I captured him and returned him to jail or worked with him for one reason or another.

If I later talked to an NPC, they would view my action differently depending on their morality. Thus limiting or opening options for me involving that specific NPC. The following example(s) is/are going under the assumption that I killed the above Psychopath to protect people. A person with a high moral score(9-10), would view the killing as cold blooded murder and see it as evil. These people would be the more niave people who beleive everyone can be saved from corruption. A person in the moral gray area(moral score 4-6), would recognize the reason I did it and accept it. They might not like the option but they accept that it was the "best" option at the time. A person with a low moral score(0-1), wouldn't give a damn unless he had a personal stake the man I killed.

This system would alter the player's options not based on his actions (although there are certain options that will become unavailable if certain things are done; kinda hard to get a quest from a dead guy), but how others view his actions. It would also allow for the Lawful Evil people about the forum to play a "Hero" up until he was near whatever evil goal he set for himnself. Such as pretending to help in a police investigation just to get close enough to a certain officer so you can kill him, or gathering  good allies only to betray them near the end game and take control of the big bad's doomsday device.

If you want a sense of Personal Code in the game, let the player pick from a list of personal codes and give them a bonus if they adhere to the code they chose. By code I mean any rule, goal, or ideal they hold close to their hearts. So a good character could have the personal code of never taking a life unless in self defence, while a villian could have the personal code to never let anyone who "wronged" you live. By wronged I mean anything as "big" as betraying your trust for their own personal gain and leaving you to die, or as small as cutting in front of you in the lunch line. Really anything you view as being "wronged". As long as the player follows the code, they receive a bonus befitting the nature of their code. Such as, a person who vows never to kill might get a boost to his REP for not killing anyone. This would allow him easier access to certain things from Higher Moral Score NPCs. If the player happens to break his own personal code, he receives some kind of effect based upon what he did and why he did it. This effect doesn't need to be entirely negative.

Example: a man who takes a Personal Code to Never Kill, kills a man. This causes him to question himself and do some "soul searching". The effect he would receive from the breaking of his code could be something like getting an adrenaline rush from killing, seeing as he is new the experience, but suffering from a crash after the killing as his actions come down on his Psyche. Maybe he takes a more sinsiter turn and gets a rush from killing but becomes addicted to the rush, thus giving him a bit of an incentive to kill.

You could also give certain things, like weapons or armor or something of the like, a Morality system. If the weapon judges you too pure to wield its dark powers it will reject you. These weapons would either be semi or fully sentient in mental ability but, being objects, physically incapable of doing anything other than choosing a wielder. Or maybe they are physically capable, who knows.

These examples are more Pen & Paper RPG than Video Game RPG, but I beleive I have made most of my point.
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Helmaroc

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Re: On Morality In Video Games
« Reply #79 on: September 20, 2010, 04:31:27 pm »

You've picked my interest. Why did that make Fable-guy corrupt?

IIRC, in Fable II if you ate certain foods you become more or less corrupt. Because there are no evil vegetarians, and villains are fat bastards who eat meat and pie?
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Nikov

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Re: On Morality In Video Games
« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2010, 07:35:27 pm »

Somewhat unrelated, but I've not been able to play Arma II, a modern US Army versus Russia FPS, since my cousin deployed to Afghanistan. I just lost my appetite for it.
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Grakelin

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Re: On Morality In Video Games
« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2010, 11:31:29 pm »

Then don't eat the Russians, easy.

My Dad going to Afghanistan didn't affect my FPS experience at all, but maybe I'm just a sociopath.
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I am have extensive knowledge of philosophy and a strong morality
Okay, so, today this girl I know-Lauren, just took a sudden dis-interest in talking to me. Is she just on her period or something?

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: On Morality In Video Games
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2010, 11:58:36 pm »

I think it would depend on how the individual handles a temporary suspension of reality. While I find that letting the world go for a while to better experiance the story of a game, I've had yet to encounter anything in games that is close to my (admittedly rather mild) real life problems. So, for me, no issues exist. Sure, the US is still really at war, and our soilders are still really dying in conflicts that some video games are based off of, but that's too detached from me personally for it to have an effect.

While one person might become too involved in playing a game about war when they are in/know someone close to them is in actual war, another might not. For one person, it inevitably becomes too "real" and becomes disturbing, while for another, it is and always will be "just a game" that never bothers them. I don't know enough about psychology to adress why this is, however.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Nikov

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Re: On Morality In Video Games
« Reply #83 on: September 21, 2010, 01:43:10 am »

Its not a problem of suspension of reality. I've no trouble with WWII shooters, and there I'm consistantly playing Germans. Its more like taste in art.
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I should probably have my head checked, because I find myself in complete agreement with Nikov.

Neonivek

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Re: On Morality In Video Games
« Reply #84 on: September 21, 2010, 02:34:59 am »

You've picked my interest. Why did that make Fable-guy corrupt?

IIRC, in Fable II if you ate certain foods you become more or less corrupt. Because there are no evil vegetarians, and villains are fat bastards who eat meat and pie?

The way I understand the Fable world is that there are latent energies in the air that collect around individuals depending on your actions.

The problem with this is that essentially your the only person that allignment seems to apply to... ultimately meaning that your allignment is in fact non-existant but rather a psychological manifestation of how your character feels.

Though Purity and Corruption arn't really an allignment or morality issue...
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