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[manboricua]

Great picture, and on that curve, once you get past the bulldozer section, then you are good to go(still using the wiki of course).

[Erkki]

I dont think DF has a very steep learning curve.
I think there are lots of simulators and strategy games (and I dont mean "real time "strategies""..) that are much more difficult to learn and become good at.

Did you learn how to play the game by yourself, or did you require help from the wiki?  Did you know how to do anything beyond random-button-press when you started, unless you looked at the wiki, like most of us did still do?  Most other games are basically clones of other games, and as such are fairly easy (and intuative!) to figure out.  No, DF has one of the most insane learning curves ever.

I figured most of the UI and basic mechanics out before finding wiki and Dwarf Therapist. And yeah, most of the games truly are just each others clones aiming for the lowest divider and mass sales. But I dont that gaming wise DF is too difficult, if one doesnt want it to be (or make some hilarious, dwarf-hurting mistake, usually involving a needlessly complex construction or two, water, magma and/or gaged megafauna  ).

EDIT: For example I dont think anyone who plays DF thinks that in a game, graphics are the most important part, right behind it following action and ease of getting into it. I dont, either. And I also like games that dont think the player is either a 11-year old ADHD coke addict or in need of a lobotomy... Few are the games where the player actually needs other than quick reflexes, that arent simple and easy, that have players. DF is one of those.

[Urist Imiknorris]

I just realized what that overhang means in the image. That's the point when you have your first successful, non-flooded/thirsty/hungry/dead fortress, and you think back to all your fuckups along the way. You realize what you should have done differently in each and every case, allowing you to go back to those forts (assuming they're still alive) and fix your mistakes. This is basically an extended epiphany and you come out of it a better player than you were going in.

[Herbiie]

This is DF. A wiki is needed to learn the controls. I still find myself checking things on it just to make sure I understand the principles.

I think the statemen:
This is DF. Even the Wiki doesn't know everything about it.

Is better

Learning the basics of DF is pretty easy, you can build a nice little fortress that lasts for quite a while before some FB or Goblins destroy it quite easily, just learning about farms, cutting down trees, making bedrooms & dining rooms, traps, a military, and making stuff is quite easy.

However, learning everything in DF is nigh-on impossible. That is what makes it so hard, other games, strategy games etc. you can actually become a master at the game and know what everything is just by playing it lots. I wouldn't be surprised if the DF Devs don't know everything in DF...

[Urist Imiknorris]

Dev. And he doesn't. That's why he enlists us to help find bugs.

[Daetrin]

Part of it is that DF complexity is emergent. Building a pump is easy. Turning that into a fiendish magma/drowning/cave-in trap is something else altogether.

[Urist son of Urist]

There should be a vertical bar at the start of the graph representing being confronted with ASCII graphics.  I imagine there's a lot of people who downloaded DF without ever having played or heard of a Roguelike and promptly said, "What the hell is this?  IT MAKES NO SENSE.  WHY IS THE SQUIGGLY GREEN THING MOVING LIKE THAT?  WHY DO MY DWARVES KEEP EXPLODING?"

[MaDeR Levap]

Yeah, we seen this pic thousand times already. Gee, thanks.

Anyway I seen it for first time in context of EVE Online (long ago stopped playing, completely and utterly accidentally around time when I discovered DF) - and it will be for me forever this one "real" picture of learning curve. Rest of them (DF or Allegiance) are just copycats.

[Tupimus]

I wouldn't say that DF is that hard to learn. Maybe if you restrict yourself to the base ASCII graphics (you really can't make out anything from them, even if you've previous roguelike experience. WHAT IS WITH THE VARIED GRASS TILES AAAAAAAAAAAAHJHHHHHHH), but you really do figure it out fast after you get a proper tileset (you know, that actually lets you discern z-level variations?).

Although a quick trip to the forums afterwards is advised to learn some basic goblin prevention protocols.

[Canalan]

But I love the ASCII graphics!  And I can make sense of them, it just takes an hour of paying attention and liberal ue of [k].

[They Got Leader]

But I love the ASCII graphics!  And I can make sense of them, it just takes an hour of paying attention and liberal ue of [k].

Agreed

[Skelodwarf]

wI HAD NEVER SEEN THIS PICTURE BEFORE, AND FOUND IT BOTH ENTERTAINING AND FUNNY.

Personally I think this game is pretty simple once you have someone else walk you through it step by step. It's more the lack of any in game tutorial that makes it impossible.

I mean, take away the bottom half of the screen in starcraft, as well as all the tutorials, and then just throw someone into the middle of a game, and people will start saying "OMG THE LEARNING CURVE! THIS IS SO DIFFICULT!" Merely because they might take 20 minutes to find the B key.

I don't see Dwarf Fortress as a steep learning curve, more as a never ending curve. Yes. A learning Loop. Or corkscrew. Or maybe more like a Large Serrated Disk.

[geoduck]

I'm another one who had never seen it before, so thanks for posting. It was funny.

[FreakinSatan]

But I love the ASCII graphics!  And I can make sense of them, it just takes an hour of paying attention and liberal ue of [k].

I'm the same.... ironically enough, I can't play with tilesets. I don't know whats going on. Haha.

[Aik]

I've once seen a photoshopped version of this pic (with WoW being replaced by DF and DF being replaced by Allegiance) on Allegiance wiki (it's a shitty space sim). Since then I didn't play that game.

Allegiance is an excellent space sim and does have a ludicrous learning curve. It's the only game I've played that has a learning curve that's on a par with DF. Sure, it's a silly and inaccurate photoshop, but you can hardly blame the game for that...