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[Andeerz]

Well put, Jiri and Cameron.

[cameron]

Even most of the worlds with excessive sprawl seem to only appear that way during embark in the detail output it does look like a lot of farms but it doesn't look that excessive of the 12 % estimate, the main issue is I think the rather large bounding box around them making them look much larger then they are, or people basing their opinions on the area directly on top of a city.

all of this is based on a large map i've not much idea what the other sizes are like

EDIT
has the logs in legends changed a bit? or is it just me.
concerning the pillaging and taking of things incontestably and having 41 mostly elves attack

[wurli]

The point is to reach a balance that makes sense in whatever world DF is set on.

So, if a 4x4 farm plot can feed 100 dwarves, and each of these farm sprawls have 100x100 farm plots, then each sprawl can feed 6,250 people... so, we're talking what, one to two farm sprawls per city? Sounds about right to me!

[I jest, I jest.]

you missed one zero

Or maybe humans consume way more food

[Artificer]

Just adding my vote that banging a large region left me with almost no usable land, it was all sprawled on.

I think we need a few plagues and disasters to keep the population down. =P

[Vigilant]

I bet the military add-ons will fix sprawl. Darn humies and elves won't have so many villages when goblin towers start pillaging them.

[HammerDave]

Is it normal to be able to dig beyond level 0?  In my aforementioned brand-new .13 fort, my dwarves have sunk a 3x3 up/down staircase all the way down to level -1, which is 142 levels below ground, without hitting magma, slade, or molten rock.  My main concern is what it might do to memory references at negative z levels.   

In the DF way I'm tempted to save and then dig deeper.   

[Dante]

Amazing, 31.13 runs eagerly on my ancient singlecore netbook. 31.12 wouldn't even open.

[JediaKyrol]

hmm...I just got an immigrant...a "war peasant"  with no ability to assign jobs or positions...but also doesn't show up on the "animals" list...I guess she's a slave.  Never had immigrants bring slaves before.  Yep...assign animals listed 1 war beast, I just assigned her as a war pet to one of my soldiers... ... ...

[Untelligent]

Z-level 0 might be sea level. Or the lowest an ocean can get to. One of them.

[kuketski]

i had dwarf fortress close without warning during the finalizing sites bit of world gen on a large world at around 300 it also crashed a bit after embark. 


the finalizing sites issue seemed to be consistent once the world gen got over 250 or so years, so it may be from the number of sites.

also i rather like the new sprawl, if you seem to have it everywhere try to have less civs, a shorter world gen or a bigger map. as 200 years on a large world with 120 civs left me with only pockets of sprawl around cities and towns with the rest of the map as wilderness.

Edit-- the world gen closing during finilizing sites seems to only reproduce with certain world gen conditions mostly involving extremely low elevation variance

yep, it closed several times for me too. and afer that - on seasons change in-game. =(

hmm...I just got an immigrant...a "war peasant"  with no ability to assign jobs or positions...but also doesn't show up on the "animals" list...I guess she's a slave.  Never had immigrants bring slaves before.  Yep...assign animals listed 1 war beast, I just assigned her as a war pet to one of my soldiers... ... ...

Dwarven entity have
[ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
so they cant bring slaves... its a bug... =(

I think Toady is changing migration to a point of using creatures, spawned on a world gen stage.

some people reported on bugtracker that thay have immigrants with profession "Drunk", "Thief".
i got "Merchant" in my first immigration wave. and such immigrants cannot be assigned any labour.
But one report is "0003241: Two humans arrived in second immigration wave" and one - "Additional Information  -  Also, the Elf Princess is listed as "Elf Drunk.""
As soon as migrations is fixed (Thiefes and others cant be assigned labours), that`ll be a great feature!
I suggest, that civilization in wich reporter belongs nave assimilated several human towns and now brings humans as fullfleged citizens of civilization.

Humans have larger size! Ang higher AGILITY. and can use mauls and twohandedswords and longswords with one hand!
I`d make mlitary consisting only of humans =)
And as soon as they`ll start breeding - set mothers off service for 1 year, and after that year - i`ll burrow child and put mother back in squad.
Damn good life they had - eat, sleep, sex, drink booze, and fight! its a true WARRIORS!!

Finding good armor for them would be troublesome, but several years in dander room with (and without) shield will make it unsufficient and they`ll block/dodge/parry nearly ANYTHING!

And if immigration will bring elves - ill just use them as haulers - they have highest speed of all races. Breeding elves to haul thing, Aye! =)

[Biowraith]

Just adding my vote that banging a large region left me with

My expectation was for that sentence to finish with "a nasty rash"...

[Passive Fist]

So is there anything that can be done about this unminable bluemetal? It's actually protruding up a bit into my fortress and getting in the way.

[Deathworks]

Hi!

I am wondering whether I am optimistic or simply lucky. The second world I genned seems to offer enough places where you can settle. There are the big sprawls, but they have not overrun everything. I have not started playing yet as I have a few other things to attend to.

Because the world didn't take too long to gen and if I was simply lucky and the sprawl is not as bad the world may be useful, here is the gen data:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Created in DF v0.31.13.

[WORLD_GEN]
    [TITLE:MEDIUM REGION]
    [SEED:8744]
    [HISTORY_SEED:8744]
    [NAME_SEED:8744]
    [CREATURE_SEED:8744]
    [DIM:129:129]
    [EMBARK_POINTS:6000]
    [END_YEAR:1050]
    [BEAST_END_YEAR:200:-1]
    [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:0]
    [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
    [ELEVATION:1:400:201:201]
    [RAINFALL:0:100:160:160]
    [TEMPERATURE:25:75:160:160]
    [DRAINAGE:0:100:160:160]
    [VOLCANISM:0:100:3200:3200]
    [SAVAGERY:0:100:500:500]
    [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [TITAN_NUMBER:9]
    [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:300:1000000:1000000]
    [DEMON_NUMBER:50]
    [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:20:200:500]
    [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:20:200:500]
    [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:0]
    [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
    [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
    [VOLCANO_MIN:200]
    [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:2500:4:4]
    [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:2700:4:4]
    [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
    [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:1000]
    [RIVER_MINS:600:400]
    [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
    [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
    [SUBREGION_MAX:5000]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:10]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:10]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:20]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
    [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
    [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:20]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:10]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:10]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:10]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:10]
    [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:10]
    [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:100]
    [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:100]
    [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:500]
    [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:20]
    [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:80]
    [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
    [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:1]
    [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:24]
    [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:-1]
    [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
    [ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
    [RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
    [DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
    [SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
    [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]


EDIT: I planned to upload that world, but the save directory is 216MB in size, which is a bit much (^_^;;

EDIT II: I also uploaded the map to the archive, although many of the small settlements don't show on it (^_^;;

http://www.mkv25.net/dfma/map-9575-karunolworldmap

I also like that world because there is this one war that has been raging from 257 to late winter 1049 (effectively today!). The last entry in the history is the 777th pillaging of one site and another one has been pillaged over 1,100 times during that time, with other sites also sporting lots of incidents. I will definitely build my fortress in that forest where that war is raging and explore the engravings.

Deathworks

[Baughn]

That's.. probably why there isn't too much sprawl.

A logical way to tweak this would then be to increase the frequencies of wars. I wonder if there's some way we can do that via raws or worldgen parameters?

[Deathworks]

Hi!

That's.. probably why there isn't too much sprawl.

A logical way to tweak this would then be to increase the frequencies of wars. I wonder if there's some way we can do that via raws or worldgen parameters?

Actually, unless I have looked at the wrong forest, you have a point there. While many other areas are virtually over-run, that specific forest still has a lot of unclaimed terrain, even though one of the parties involved are elves.

Alternatively, I am wondering whether the rule about savagery still holds - that is, no settlement in savage areas? If that was the case, increasing the savagery variance should increase the likelihood of high savage areas stopping the sprawl...

Another problem are the unbelievable high number of civs in the default settings. Reducing them to 24 has still left me with all major races including kobolds present while leaving areas that have not been reached by any civilization at all.

Deathworks

EDIT: We should probably be careful about wars. I don't think that ruins get freed for embark, so wars can also leave us with big tracts of devastated land if we are unlucky.

Ah, and that one war is raging just in a small area of the world, a single forest and not even the biggest around.

There is also the thing about the problems with the balance of power; humans having a major advantage over the other races due to their ability to settle two terrain types. This may also encourage their sprawling.