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Total Members Voted: 22

[Azthor]

what of my "Piercing Cold" example?

I know of zero cold damage spells that don't allow a save, so the point is moot. (Though I would like to hear of one. That build never spent much money, so items of spell immunity to particular spells might be handy.) But yes, if it didn't allow a save, piercing cold could damage him.

Assuming you have nothing preventing a ranged touch attack, a "Piercing Cold" Polar Ray could deal upwards of 25d6/2 even to an immune monster. No saving throws involved.

I also doubt the Warforged can beat a Wizard in a Control check (INT based), so a sphere of annihilation remains a perfectly valid, if expensive, way of putting the Juggernaut to rest.

A cleric could also polymorph themselves in a girallon and use its four arms to simultaneously wield 4 +5 composite bows (+4 composite bows enchanted through Greater Magic Weapon), plus Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow) and Rapid Shot, stack +5 arrows  and Bracers of Archery on top of that, cast Maximized Cat's Grace and add a Mithril Chain Shirt of Speed, as well as Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might and Bless for a total of +38/+38/+38/+33/+28 attacks, each dealing 26 piercing damage... How about it?

Likewise, a Red Wizard leading a full Circle has a total CL of 40, add in Earth Spell and they can gate in a hecatoncheires completly under their control; I wonder how the Warforged would fare against 100 +5 Greatspears hitting it simultaneously.

I also forgot Holy Word and Blasphemy; a Cleric can use Prayer Beads, levels in Hierophant, the Good domain, among others, to boost his CL 10 above yours, in which case these spells would instantly destroy the Warforged. They are not death dffects, so, death ward and its likes won't help against it.

[RAM]

As much as I appreciate this, perhaps this discussion has gone beyond the realm of level 5-8 characters. I would suggest that you just make your character, and see what the D.M. feels is appropriate. Don't be surprised if your veils become dispelable, your metamagics cannot be reduced below half(round up), and your favourite CL 40 spells have their effects capped at the same caster level as an equivalent damage-dealing spell...
I am not saying that this will happen, the D.M. seems quite lenient about such things, but don't make you character completely dependant upon being extremely powerful or exploiting a specific ability.

[Azthor]

As much as I appreciate this, perhaps this discussion has gone beyond the realm of level 5-8 characters. I would suggest that you just make your character, and see what the D.M. feels is appropriate. Don't be surprised if your veils become dispelable, your metamagics cannot be reduced below half(round up), and your favourite CL 40 spells have their effects capped at the same caster level as an equivalent damage-dealing spell...
I am not saying that this will happen, the D.M. seems quite lenient about such things, but don't make you character completely dependant upon being extremely powerful or exploiting a specific ability.

Had you bothered to read all of it, you'd see we are having this discussion merely for the sake of entertainment; I settled against using a RWoT or a Iot7V roughly 9 posts ago.

Wouldn't the Juggernaut still be vulnerable to pure energy? Regardless, I agree with you on the Incantatrix; Red Wizard would require me to sacrifice yet another school and I'd probably see a Rod of Cancellation pop up sooner or later if I used the Iot7V.

My original question was mainly so that I could decide between an human specialist and and a gray elf generalist. Still, if you feel the discussion is being disruptive, I don't have any qualms about restricting it to PMs. That aside, while you seem to believe we are having an argument as to wheter these PrCs should be allowed, and if any sort of nerf is pending, that is obviously not the case; he approved the three PrCs instantly, we both recognized there were ways for the DM to get around their advantages and we stopped right there; the rest is casual talk about high end optimization and its respective counters.

[RAM]

Had you bothered to read all of it, you would notice that those were examples and only there to demonstrate a theme. Having bothered to read it all I know that no character sheet has been posted and therefore is likely in a state of flux...

As for the discussion being disruptive, it has not been thus far, but the tone of the discussion is reaching a point at which it seems that it could rapidly degenerate into an argument...

[Azthor]

As for the discussion being disruptive, it has not been thus far, but the tone of the discussion is reaching a point at which it seems that it could rapidly degenerate into an argument...

If you refer to the two of us, I concur, otherwise, not. While I don't see it getting out of hand, I suppose we could and should try and employ less aggressive an speech pattern in our discussion.

Had you bothered to read all of it, you would notice that those were examples and only there to demonstrate a theme. Having bothered to read it all I know that no character sheet has been posted and therefore is likely in a state of flux...

Back on track, my disagreement is founded on the belief of that your post was, to put it bluntly, rather unwarranted for; not only had we already ceased talking about the possibilities for my character and moved on to a more general topic, completing a character sheet before getting hold of a few specifics is, as I see it, an unnecessary mishap. From prerequisite feats to forbidden schools, the build for the different PrCs is rarely the same, and I do not see the point of creating a sheet which may well wind up having to be remade whole rather than ask a simple question.

Assume Barbarossa hadn't allowed me to use nor the Iot7V nor the Incantatrix; had I not asked for a prior evaluation, I may well have ended up making two characters whose only possible outcome was being scrapped. Therefore, I simply cannot bring myself to agree with your original point. As for having a character completly dependant on power or an specific ability, I'd remain a rather versatile wizard even if I did lose a class feature or two due to a nerf, but there is nothing wrong with wishing to avoid even that much; it is also certainly more sensible than trying to get potentially overpowered abilities through under the DM's nose, only for the problem to surface and have to be solved amidst the game.

[Heron TSG]

I'm not the DM, I didn't 'allow' anything. You'll have to wait for our Canadian Overlord to show up for that. (Shoruke.) I'm just saying that he's usually pretty lenient.

[Azthor]

I'm not the DM, I didn't 'allow' anything. You'll have to wait for our Canadian Overlord to show up for that. (Shoruke.) I'm just saying that he's usually pretty lenient.

I was aware of which Shoruke is the head DM, but I assumed somewhere down the road that you were acting as a co-DM of sorts. It is probably due to you having answered a question originally intended for anyone with power of veto; while you posted it as an opinion, I read it as an evaluation, my bad.

That also partially invalidates the point I tried to make in my last posts, RAM, thus it is only fair that I apologize; excuse me for the undue hassle from my part.

[Doomblade187]

So, has there been anything going on the past few weeks?

[Dwarmin]

Nope, Sho's been gone from the forums for at least ten days...

[Heron TSG]

If there's a session, I'll be there a little bit later than usual. (Though I should still make it.)

[Heron TSG]

So... Shoruke is missing, apparently. Anyone heard anything from him?

[Theoboldi]

I sure haven't. He hasn't shown up for skyrunner's game either, and his profile says he hasn't loggend in for 2 weeks. I'm really starting to get worried about him.

[RedWarrior0]

IIRC, The Fool knows him IRL... See what's up, maybe?

[Heron TSG]

Alright, he's not dead, I think. He was gone for about a month, and then posted June 2nd. Not since then, though. I'd like to have a session today, but it looks like a longshot. I'll be around though, if he shows.

[Heron TSG]

I think that it's safe to say we're on hiatus for a bit. He's mainly doing scattered postings in the upper forums, but they are returning to some regularity. (One every 3-7 days instead of week-long disappearances.)

Hrmph.