Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Saturdays!

17 (77.3%)

Sundays!

5 (22.7%)

Total Members Voted: 22

[Azthor]

How about a diviner/abjurer with evokation as the his forbbiden school?

Ooh, nice... The orb spells from conjuration look good, and divination/abjuration is great for buffs/debuffs.

It allows for some rather potent PrCs, and I can more or less cover evocation with Shadow Evocation (Illusion); I'd rather not be a one trick pony. My specialist school will be Divination, both due to is general usefulness and so that I need only ban one school.

[Heron TSG]

Shadow Evocation can become cheesy as hell if you do it right.

"I don't believe in this trick!"
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!"
*Takes 120% damage from the fireball.*

[Azthor]

Shadow Evocation can become cheesy as hell if you do it right.

"I don't believe in this trick!"
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!"
*Takes 120% damage from the fireball.*

At least it is not nightstick powered Holy Word  or Planar Shepherd cheese... Let's not get started on Candles of Invocation.

[Shoruke]

Umm... Have I been misreading rules, or are you guys just wrong?
If you succeed on your will save to disbelieve a Shadow Evocation, it does 20% damage... not 120%. If you don't, it behaves as normal... And there's really no way to do both at once...
And I would rule that Solars don't classify casting a spell with an XP component as part of their obligation to fight for you... Assuming that the Solar you Gate in even has a Gate spell prepared, which they likely don't, according to their default spell list.

[Azthor]

Umm... Have I been misreading rules, or are you guys just wrong?
If you succeed on your will save to disbelieve a Shadow Evocation, it does 20% damage... not 120%. If you don't, it behaves as normal... And there's really no way to do both at once...
And I would rule that Solars don't classify casting a spell with an XP component as part of their obligation to fight for you... Assuming that the Solar you Gate in even has a Gate spell prepared, which they likely don't, according to their default spell list.

It is never 120%, but full damage on save failure and 20% on a successful will check (special effects are either reduced to a fifith, if applicable, or have only 20% chance of ocurring). Also, your point regarding the Solars is valid, although it depends on the DM, in this case, you; there are many spells which allow the player to put the Solar under their complete control though, and the cheese is the Miracle spell, not Gate.

Edit: I just remembered that 120% efficiency is possible (Shadowcraft Mage), but it requires you to take additional feats. Alternatively, Barbarossa mistook it for Shadow Conjuration, which gets 120% on a failed save.

[Shoruke]

So the hypothetical plan is...
1) Cast Gate to summon a Solar
2) completely subjugate it
3) Force it against its will to pay 5,000 exp to use Miracle to summon another Solar (assumes that DM rules that Forced Reverse Plane Shift is a valid use of Miracle)

Now even assuming that you can beat a +20 will save and SR 32 reliably, the second Solar isn't even under the first Solar's control, let alone yours... and when it notices that you are literally summoning angels and forcing them to give up their life force against their will to further your own ends, you are going to have a BAD TIME. You are now an enemy of every Celestial plane, good job heathen.

[Azthor]

So the hypothetical plan is...
1) Cast Gate to summon a Solar
2) completely subjugate it
3) Force it against its will to pay 5,000 exp to use Miracle to summon another Solar (assumes that DM rules that Forced Reverse Plane Shift is a valid use of Miracle)

Now even assuming that you can beat a +20 will save and SR 32 reliably, the second Solar isn't even under the first Solar's control, let alone yours... and when it notices that you are literally summoning angels and forcing them to give up their life force against their will to further your own ends, you are going to have a BAD TIME. You are now an enemy of every Celestial plane, good job heathen.

Well, it wasnt my plan in the first place, but you get full control of the gated creature as long as its HD is not greater than twice your caster level. You can simply have it cast Miracle for you, altogether skipping the standard EXP costs. The best way of botching that exploit is to have a very pissed off deity come forward and smite the offender, should he repeatedly use this, or have the Solar interpretate the Wish in a harmful way.

You cannot summon an endless number of Solars through Gate and Miracle alone, as you'd need a way to control every single one but the first. Well, my bad, you can, you need only use Miracle to acquire an unlimited number of certain wands to chain enslave the Solars, which is why the DM should intervene. The spells you'd need castings of are Assay Resistance and Dominate Monster; Miracle can be used to force the victim to re-roll its Will save if needed be.

[Heron TSG]

I'll just leave this here.

Suffice to say, it's possible to get up to 160% (or 140% depending on interpretation) effectiveness.

[Azthor]

I'll just leave this here.

Suffice to say, it's possible to get up to 160% (or 140% depending on interpretation) effectiveness.

There are better uses for the feats though. Also, regarding the Solar wish engine:

"A controlled creature can be commanded to perform a service for you. Such services fall into two categories: immediate tasks and contractual service. Fighting for you in a single battle or taking any other actions that can be accomplished within 1 round per caster level counts as an immediate task; you need not make any agreement or pay any reward for the creature’s help. The creature departs at the end of the spell.

If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature, you must offer some fair trade in return for that service. The service exacted must be reasonable with respect to the promised favor or reward; see the lesser planar ally spell for appropriate rewards. (Some creatures may want their payment in “livestock” rather than in coin, which could involve complications.) Immediately upon completion of the service, the being is transported to your vicinity, and you must then and there turn over the promised reward. After this is done, the creature is instantly freed to return to its own plane."

It is far easier to accomplish the same thing using Efreetis instead of Solars though, and that leads nowhere good: that is the shortest route to creating Pun Pun if you use Candles of Invocation and exploit Pazuzu. In that case, you create a genuine infinite wish engine, rather than simply bypassing the 5,000 EXP cost.

Edit: how did the conversation shift to Solars in the first place?

[Shoruke]

Food absorption complete.
Starting server...

[RAM]

While we are discussing eval, I thought that I might mention this piece of code that I was fairly proud of.

  [h,if(ammo_type!="Energy"&&ammo_type!="None"):eval(ammo_type+"=eval(ammo_type)-1")]

The code is not a D&D thing, but it is nice to know that there is a (horrible and obscure) way to do this in Maptools...

[Azthor]

Before I post my sheet, are there any spell or PrC restrictions in place for arcane casters that I should be aware of? I know much will be analysed on a case-by-case basis, but it won't hurt to avoid anything that is already vetoed.

[RedWarrior0]

Might as well have my personal schedule up:
This weekend: Free
Next weekend: Free
Week of 13th-19th: Mostly free, except for a few mornings with AP tests
The 20th: Decidedly not free
After that: Almost entirely free except for two weekends.

[Doomblade187]

This weekend I can't do, unless it's Sunday, next weekend I think is mostly free, and after that I'm not sure.

[Heron TSG]

Well, Azthor, I don't know of any major blanket bans, asides from psionics. I'd say just post it and we'll see if it needs fixing.