Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Saturdays!

17 (77.3%)

Sundays!

5 (22.7%)

Total Members Voted: 22

[Criptfeind]

I think the Chaotic and or evil characters might outnumber the lawful and or good characters. So. A Paladin would be a welcome addition from my point of view.

[thatkid]

Warning: We have some number of evil characters. I can't remember the exact number, but it is decidedly nonzero.

That's quite alright.

I was actually hoping to talk to the GM about rewording the Paladin Code a bit. There are some paladins, after all, who's main goal is not to murder everything. And I hardly think it's fitting that, say, a Paladin cannot render aid to a CE Commoner who has yet to actually commit a crime, if he accidentally happens to detect evil on the poor sod beforehand.

Essentially, I'd just like to remove the bit about knowingly associating with evil characters. Else, I'll simply need to play a Paladin who is completely OK with falling from grace should it mean having the chance to redeem someone rather than outright killing them.
Maybe type up an entire oath that he would have actually taken to replace the mechanical code, too? I dunno. The association thing is my big beef with it at the moment, in any case.

Back to the mechanical side of things: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=365965
This is Alester at the moment. Trying to come up with a better last name and/or deity. I'm looking at the OP right now, but I don't have a lot of information on the setting so my backstory will be kind of vague since I need information to get the ideas flowin'.

[Heron TSG]

Have you looked into Grey Paladin? That might not be the exact name, but it has Gray/Grey in the name somewhere. It's a paladin that stands more for law than justice. Alternatively, Paladin of Tyranny. Blackguard? 

[Criptfeind]

The grey paladins are a prestige class I think... A little out of our level range right now...

[thatkid]

Alester stands for Good more than he does Law though. Of course, he remains lawful in the pursuit of that.

[RedWarrior0]

Maybe go Crusader if you have access to the Tome of Battle?

[thatkid]

Well, I planned on using ToB feats to get crusader maneuvers and the like. If it's possible to dip Crusader and then return to Pally, I might do that too. I can't seem to find a feat for it, though...
E: Scratch that. Dipping into Crusader 1 before I start to take the pally levels. Hopefully somewhere down the line I can get some kind of homebrew feat that allows me to go back into Crusader without giving up Pally permanently.

EE: Actually, I've got a ways to go till my next feat but is there any chance I might be able to take this homebreak feat?: Devoted Templar.

There's also the Devoted Paladin, but honestly I feel that Devoted Templar is more worthwhile if only for the multiclassing it allows.

[Heron TSG]

Well, you might just want to go into Knight/Cleric. The Knight's Code is a little more lenient than the Paladin's, or at least you don't have to impose it on others.

[thatkid]

I would do that, but I'm not looking to play a character who's bound by oath to put Honor above all else, I'm looking to play a character who's bound by oath to put Morality above all else.

The only bit about imposing the code on others is the part about not being able to knowingly associate with evil. Which, honestly, I think is really silly and was rather hoping for word from the GM on whether or not I could simply ignore that aspect of it if only to a certain extent.
I play paladins fairly regularly in roleplaying games, and when doing so it's generally my goal to not have them be a stick-in-the-mud. Provided he can actually consort with evil characters, the closest you'll ever see Alester get to actual imposition will probably be trying to befriend the evil characters while aiming to set a good example...unless, as I've said, they try to massacre a village full of innocents on his watch or something.

[Tidal]

...unless, as I've said, they try to massacre a village full of innocents on his watch or something.

Sometimes, they have a perfectly good reason to do so. To cross a chasm, for example.

[RAM]

Hmmmm, Evil characters are inclined towards Evil motives. A paladin may not wish to take part in an activity that has been significantly influenced by an Evil mind, as it is likely to pursue Evil goals. The misdirection of the righteous must be one of the most heinous of moral breaches... Perhaps rewording it to "may not knowingly collaborate with Evil characters" would be a satisfactory compromise. You can attempt to reform them by travelling with them and setting a good example. You can form a relationship in the hopes that they may be reformed at a later date. But if you get involved in their schemes then you are likely to lose your powers sooner or later regardless of whether it is an explicit breach in and of itself...

[thatkid]

Hmmmm, Evil characters are inclined towards Evil motives. A paladin may not wish to take part in an activity that has been significantly influenced by an Evil mind, as it is likely to pursue Evil goals. The misdirection of the righteous must be one of the most heinous of moral breaches... Perhaps rewording it to "may not knowingly collaborate with Evil characters" would be a satisfactory compromise. You can attempt to reform them by travelling with them and setting a good example. You can form a relationship in the hopes that they may be reformed at a later date. But if you get involved in their schemes then you are likely to lose your powers sooner or later regardless of whether it is an explicit breach in and of itself...

Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for as a means of rewording that bit. Thanks a lot!

[Shoruke]

Hmmmm, Evil characters are inclined towards Evil motives. A paladin may not wish to take part in an activity that has been significantly influenced by an Evil mind, as it is likely to pursue Evil goals. The misdirection of the righteous must be one of the most heinous of moral breaches... Perhaps rewording it to "may not knowingly collaborate with Evil characters" would be a satisfactory compromise. You can attempt to reform them by travelling with them and setting a good example. You can form a relationship in the hopes that they may be reformed at a later date. But if you get involved in their schemes then you are likely to lose your powers sooner or later regardless of whether it is an explicit breach in and of itself...

Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for as a means of rewording that bit. Thanks a lot!

I'd be fine with that. I'm not too big on Paladins being banned from trying to reform people through friendship/example etc. There's also the Unearthed Arcana variant Paladins for the other 3 extreme alignments (for instance, the Drow might have their own brand of Paladins too... but they serve the Spider Queen, and they are NOT nice people). For the Paladin of Freedom, I would remove the bit about not being able to help people serve a cause that is Lawful unless it is very oppressive (in which case it's evil anyway, and thus a moot point).

I'll approve Devoted Templar. (Just so we're super-clear, this doesn't allow you to count 1.5x your Paladin levels for your initiator level total... your Paladin levels now contribute one initiator level each, instead of the base half initiator level that all non-initiator levels grant by default)
Also, welcome to the team =)

[Araph]

I had an idea for a class for a future character, and because I just realized that I have Adobe Dreamweaver on this computer, I've been tinkering around with HTML. If you copy this into an HTML document and open it with Firefox or what-have-you, it'll be a lot easier to read:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

<html>
<head>
<title>Combat Wizard</title>
</head>

<body style="background-color:rgb(150,150,150); font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

<div style="background-color:rgb(200,200,200)">
<h2 align="center">Combat Wizard</h2>
</div>

<div style="background-color:rgb(200,200,200)">

<h4>Alignment</h4>
Any
<h4>Hit Die</h4>
d6
</div>

<div style="background-color:rgb(200,200,200)">
<h3>Class Skills</h3>

<p>
The combat wizard's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/balance.htm">Balance</a>(Dex),
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm">Climb</a>(Str),
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/concentration.htm">Concentration</a>(Con),
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/decipherScript.htm">Decipher Script</a>(Int),
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm">Jump</a>(Str),
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm">Knowledge</a>(All skills, taken individually)(Int),
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spellcraft.htm">Spellcraft</a>(Int),
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm">Tumble</a>(Dex), and
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm">Use Magic Device</a>(Cha).
</p>

<p>
<b>Skill Points at 1st Level</b>
<br />
(4 + Int Modifier) x4
<br />
<br />
<b>Skill Points at Each Additional Level</b>
<br />
(4 + Int Modifier)<br />
</p>
</div>

<div>
<table border="2" style="background-color:rgb(200,200,200)">
<tr>
<td width="50">Level</td>
<td width="105">Base Attack Bonus</td>
<td width="75">Fort Save</td>
<td width="75">Ref Save</td>
<td width="75">Will Save</td>
<td width="150">Special</td>
<td width="35">0</td>
<td width="35">1st</td>
<td width="35">2nd</td>
<td width="35">3rd</td>
<td width="35">4th</td>
<td width="35">5th</td>
<td width="35">6th</td>
<td width="35">7th</td>
<td width="35">8th</td>
<td width="35">9th</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="50">1</td>
<td width="105">+0</td>
<td width="75">+0</td>
<td width="75">+0</td>
<td width="75">+2</td>
<td width="150">Arcane Strike, <s>Arcane Guidance</s></td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">0</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="50">2</td>
<td width="105">+1</td>
<td width="75">+0</td>
<td width="75">+0</td>
<td width="75">+3</td>
<td width="150">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">1</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="50">3</td>
<td width="105">+2</td>
<td width="75">+1</td>
<td width="75">+1</td>
<td width="75">+3</td>
<td width="150">Supernatural Talent</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">1</td>
<td width="35">0</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="50">4</td>
<td width="105">+3</td>
<td width="75">+1</td>
<td width="75">+1</td>
<td width="75">+4</td>
<td width="150">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">1</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="50">5</td>
<td width="105">+3</td>
<td width="75">+1</td>
<td width="75">+1</td>
<td width="75">+4</td>
<td width="150">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">1</td>
<td width="35">0</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="50">6</td>
<td width="105">+4</td>
<td width="75">+2</td>
<td width="75">+2</td>
<td width="75">+5</td>
<td width="150"> <p>Supernatural Talent</p></td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">1</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="50">7</td>
<td width="105">+5</td>
<td width="75">+2</td>
<td width="75">+2</td>
<td width="75">+5</td>
<td width="150">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">1</td>
<td width="35">0</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="50">8</td>
<td width="105">+6</td>
<td width="75">+2</td>
<td width="75">+2</td>
<td width="75">+6</td>
<td width="150">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">1</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="50">9</td>
<td width="105">+6</td>
<td width="75">+3</td>
<td width="75">+3</td>
<td width="75">+6</td>
<td width="150">Supernatural Talent</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">1</td>
<td width="35">0</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="50">10</td>
<td width="105">+7</td>
<td width="75">+3</td>
<td width="75">+3</td>
<td width="75">+7</td>
<td width="150">&nbsp;</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">3</td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">2</td>
<td width="35">1</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
<td width="35">-</td>
</tr>

</table>
</div>

<div style="background-color:rgb(200,200,200)">
<h3>Class Features</h3>
<p>All of the following are class features of the combat wizard.</p>
<h4>Weapon and Armor Proficiency</h4>
<p>Combat wizards are proficient with all one-handed and light martial and simple weapons, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a wizard’s movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail. </p>
<h4>Spells</h4>
<p>A combat wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A wizard must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time (see below).
<br />
<br />
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the combat wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the wizard’s Intelligence modifier.
<br />
<br />
Like other spellcasters, a combat wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Combat Wizard. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score.
<br />
<br />
Similar to a normal wizard, a combat wizard may know any number of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.
</p>
<h4>Bonus Languages</h4>
<p>A combat wizard may substitute Draconic for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of her race. </p>
<h4>Arcane Strike</h4>
<p>The combat wizard can use his weapons as a channel for magical energy. He may, as an immediate action before striking, expend one spell slot of any level equal to or less than one half his caster level to deal extra damage. The attack (assuming it hits) deals 1d6 damage for every level in the spell slot expended (for example, a 3rd level spell slot would deal 3d6 extra damage). 0th level spells (cantrips) are the exception to this pattern; they only deal 1d3 extra damage. This ability may not be used in conjunction with Arcane Guidance.</p>
<h4><s>Arcane Guidance</s></h4>
<p><s>The combat wizard can use magic to guide his weapons, granting a bonus on attack rolls. He may, as an immediate action before striking, expend one spell slot of any level equal to or less than one half his caster level to gain a bonus on the attack roll he is about to make. The attack roll gains a bonus equal to the spell slot's level multiplied by two. This ability may not be used in conjunction with Arcane Strike.</s></p>
<h4>Supernatural Talents</h4>
<p>At every level that is a multiple of three, a combat wizard may select a supernatural talent to add to their abilities. Supernatural talents are similar to feats, in that they aid the combat wizard in performing a specific task, but these typically require the expendature of a spell slot.</p>
<p><em>Magic Mobility:</em></p>
<p>As a free action, the combat wizard may expend one spell slot of any level to gain a bonus to all Jump, Climb, Tumble, and Swim checks equal to the spell slot's level multiplied by two.</p>
<p><em>Wall Running:</em></p>
<p>As a free action, the combat wizard may expend one spell slot of any level to move along a vertical surface as he would a horizontal one. He can travel a number of feet equal to the spell slot's level multiplied by ten (for example, a 3rd level spell slot would allow him to move 30 ft). This effect lasts until either he runs out of movement or he stops moving for any reason; if he is not on a horizontal surface by then, he suffers falling damage as he normally would for the distance to the ground.</p>
<p><em>Ghost Attack:</em></p>
<p>As a free action, the combat wizard may expend one spell slot of any level to strike incorpreal creatures as if they were solid. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the spell slot's level.</p>
<p><em>Arcane Speed:</em></p>
<p>As a free action, the combat wizard may expend one spell slot of any level to move faster. For one round, the combat wizard gains a bonus to his speed equal to the spell slot's level multiplied by five.</p>
<p><em>Unnatural Stealth:</em></p>
<p>As a free action, the combat wizard may expend one spell slot of any level to gain bonuses to Hide and Move Silently skill checks. He gains a bonus to both skills equal to the spell slot's level multiplied by two for five rounds.</p>
<p><em>Elemental Attack:</em></p>
<p>As a free action, the combat wizard may expend one spell slot of any level greater than 3rd to change the damage type of his next attack to a type of his choosing. For every spell slot level over 3rd, this effect lasts one additional attack. The effect does not dissipate after one round if he has not made an attack.</p>
</div>
</body>

</html>

Do people think that's close to balanced? If not, what should I change? (Not asking Shoruke to approve it yet, since it probably has something wrong.)

@thatkid
And welcome to the party!

[Heron TSG]

Well, there's a problem here. Arcane Strike is exactly like a feat, and it's fairly balanced. Arcane Guidance, on the other hand, is twice as effective as the feat that does the same thing, and that feat has oodles of prerequisites. The Supernatural Talents are pretty cool, but I can't really judge how balanced they are. The utter lack of armor/shield proficiencies might be a bit of a problem, considering that it will require the burning of your meager supply of spell slots for Shield and Mage Armor (or Greater Luminous Armor, if you're good!) instead.