Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Saturdays!

17 (77.3%)

Sundays!

5 (22.7%)

Total Members Voted: 22

[Grek]

@Vherid:
Getting an extra hit dice means you roll one more dice when rolling for hit points; eg. 1d12 to 2d12.

Buying off your level does mean that you go back down to level 2, and yes, you do "loose" the skills you would have gotten at level 3, but you get them all back as soon as you get enough experience to be at level 3 again. It's probably better to think of it as needing more experience than normal to go from level 2 to 3 in exchange for getting rid of your level adjustment.

Build Suggestions
Weapon Choice:
Halberds are an unusual choice for a barbarian, as they're tripping weapons. While barbarians don't usually do trip attacks, it does actually make for a pretty good tactic. Becoming one is stat intensive and means that you want to take the improved trip feat. It gives you a +4 bonus to the trip check, lets you deal damage normally on a successful trip and avoid attacks of oppertunity. The downside is that it requires that you get an Int of 13+ and two feats, combat expertise (as a prereq.) and improved trip. Grab power attack at level 3 instead.

If tripping isn't really your style, I'd recomend taking advantage of the Sergal's racial proficency for double-bladed swords. Two attacks for 1d8+5 each is nothing to be sneezed at. Going this route pretty much requiers that you take two-weapon fighting, though, as trying to use a double weapon without it just isn't worth it. Doing this does mean some serious penalties to your attacks, especially with power attack, but the extra attacks should make up for that to some degree.

Attributes:
You should consider splurging for a base 18 in strength. It's the stat that helps you hit accurately, do damage and governs most of your skills. I'd recomend something like 20 12 13 13 10 10 for your stats after racial mods if you want to go the tripper route, or 20 15 13 10 10 10 if you're going the two-weapon fighting route.

Flaw Feats:
You can get another feat if you take a flaw and you should probably consider it. Taking a flaw like shaky (-2 to ranged attacks that you'll only rarely make) is a good trade for an extra feat.

Skills:
Don't split up your ranks between a bunch of skills. Pick a few that are really important to you and specialize in those. The party has enough people that you don't have to generalize for us to have someone available for a given skill check. I'd also advise against taking cross class ranks in profession. It's just not a good enough skill to justify it.

Misc:
You forgot your Con bonus to hit points and, as has been noted above, you have enough gold to afford much better equipment. Maybe grab a magic halberd?

[Vherid]

@Vherid:
Getting an extra hit dice means you roll one more dice when rolling for hit points; eg. 1d12 to 2d12.

Buying off your level does mean that you go back down to level 2, and yes, you do "loose" the skills you would have gotten at level 3, but you get them all back as soon as you get enough experience to be at level 3 again. It's probably better to think of it as needing more experience than normal to go from level 2 to 3 in exchange for getting rid of your level adjustment.

Ah.

Build Suggestions
Weapon Choice:
Halberds are an unusual choice for a barbarian, as they're tripping weapons. While barbarians don't usually do trip attacks, it does actually make for a pretty good tactic. Becoming one is stat intensive and means that you want to take the improved trip feat. It gives you a +4 bonus to the trip check, lets you deal damage normally on a successful trip and avoid attacks of oppertunity. The downside is that it requires that you get an Int of 13+ and two feats, combat expertise (as a prereq.) and improved trip. Grab power attack at level 3 instead.

If tripping isn't really your style, I'd recomend taking advantage of the Sergal's racial proficency for double-bladed swords. Two attacks for 1d8+5 each is nothing to be sneezed at. Going this route pretty much requiers that you take two-weapon fighting, though, as trying to use a double weapon without it just isn't worth it. Doing this does mean some serious penalties to your attacks, especially with power attack, but the extra attacks should make up for that to some degree.

Yeah I was juggling the two, I'd rather just go with the double blade then.

Attributes:
You should consider splurging for a base 18 in strength. It's the stat that helps you hit accurately, do damage and governs most of your skills. I'd recomend something like 20 12 13 13 10 10 for your stats after racial mods if you want to go the tripper route, or 20 15 13 10 10 10 if you're going the two-weapon fighting route.

Flaw Feats:
You can get another feat if you take a flaw and you should probably consider it. Taking a flaw like shaky (-2 to ranged attacks that you'll only rarely make) is a good trade for an extra feat.

Alright went with the 20-15-13-10-10-10 and grabbed shaky, so now for the extra feat should I use power attack with the double blade?

Skills:
Don't split up your ranks between a bunch of skills. Pick a few that are really important to you and specialize in those. The party has enough people that you don't have to generalize for us to have someone available for a given skill check. I'd also advise against taking cross class ranks in profession. It's just not a good enough skill to justify it.

Misc:
You forgot your Con bonus to hit points and, as has been noted above, you have enough gold to afford much better equipment. Maybe grab a magic halberd?

Put the points into more specific skills instead then, and I don't have any cross class ranks.

For Con Bonus considering the circumstances am I supposed to actually roll for it, or are we just adding max points or something.

Also better equipment, yeah all I really see are the regular items in the player guide, I clicked to look at the magic items and that shit was confusing. I think I'd just get a +1 double bladed sword, and do you add an extra ability then or is that only when it goes beyond +5?

[Kogan Loloklam]

If a spell is prepared with metamagic feats, then you will get the metamagic'd version when you steal it (assuming you're able to steal spells of the appropriate modified level). If you, the spelltheif, have metamagic feats, you can apply them to your stolen spells, but doing so might increase the casting time (as Sorcerers; so spells that normally take a standard action to cast now need a full-round, etc.). If a sorcerer tries to gift you a spell with a metamagic feat applied to it, they will lose their move action for their next turn, and they'll lose a higher-level spell slot. (plus you'll need to be able to steal spells of the adjusted level)

Actually, about metamagic, It specifies in the spellthief section about that...

Spoiler: Spellthieves and Metamagic (click to show/hide)

A spellthief can't apply metamagic feats or other effects to the stolen spell unless the specific spell stolen was prepared with such an effect. For example, a spellthief of 6th level or higher could steal a wizard's empowered magic missile, but only if he specifically chose to steal empowered magic missile. If he chose to steal an unmodified magic missile, he couldn't steal an empowered magic missile, a silent magic missile, or any other metamagic form of the spell. A spellthief couldn't steal an empowered magic missile from a sorcerer, since the sorcerer applies metamagic effects upon casting and thus has no prepared empowered magic missile spell.

I'm just curious if Eschew Materials counts as metamagic, and if a Sorcerer can deliberately gift a spell with metamagic (which you answered{although if they gift with Metamagic, does their base spell become disabled for the 2 rounds, or just the spell with metamagic?})
So according to this, I can't take their stolen spell and add Metamagic unless I could cast it as a Spellthief spell. Even then I'd have to steal something of a higher level to absorb enough energy to empower it, unless you want to houserule it to how you said. I don't think that would be a good idea, and this is why: I can already use stolen spells to power my spellthief spells. This effectively "recharges" my battery. I can apply my Metamagic to those spells as normal. When you also allow me to apply metamagic to stolen spells also, you allow me to effectively raise their level by 1+ by just adding an extra round to it. So not only do they lose their spell, but it also becomes more powerful. I can already think of several ways I could abuse this, so it would probably be a bad idea. Remember that I cast their spells at their spell level, so I could take Maelrigar's Level 1 Electricity Orb and slap it with Empowerment and Maximization, and suddenly you got a effectively level 5 Spell from a level of 6 sorcerer and a few rounds from me. This is just what I can do at level 3 with that. Really the limit becomes how many feats I spend on Metamagic, and you can bet if this were allowed, I'd focus on becoming a spell enhancement system
That would definitely be interesting, but it'd go beyond OP quite quickly, especially in a party with so much magic used. So, best not go with that houserule. After all, cat's grace generally isn't cast in combat...


The Handy Haversack as starting equipment is what I am considering. If it's alright, I'm gonna make it the Halfling version. Since it's all halfling items going in it, it doesn't matter it's size.
I've also decided that I want to take Hauntings of the Past as a flaw, if it's acceptable. One thing about it, I'm not sure if the +2 racial bonus against fear should apply to it.

With this, my character should be complete. Now I need to find me a good image to use as a Pog.
I do need to know about Eschew Materials though, because if it counts as Metamagic that is inside the spell, I will need to worry about spell components. That will change some of the choices I made. I don't think it counts as Metamagic because it isn't in the Metamagic section, and it doesn't add levels to your spells, but I am not sure.

The Thief Stihe Clearwater

[Heron TSG]

How it works is that you take your Constitution modifier and add if to your health at each level. If your constitution modifer goes up, so does your health bonus.

Theoboldi, that looks a lot better. Tell your friends to research it, teach it to each other, scribe it into each others' books, and enjoy your collective POWER OF THE DARK SIDE OF THE FORCE

In two levels, I am taking this spell. This is right up my alley.

[Vherid]

How it works is that you take your Constitution modifier and add if to your health at each level. If your constitution modifer goes up, so does your health bonus.

So instead of incorporating the hit dice every level, we're only adding con modifiers? Also it's saying we are getting a hit dice per level or am I reading that wrong?

[Kogan Loloklam]

So instead of incorporating the hit dice every level, we're only adding con modifiers? Also it's saying we are getting a hit dice per level or am I reading that wrong?

You have a choice to roll your Hit dice at a session, or to take half your hit dice. Your constitution modifier is then added to that number.

You always get the maximum hit dice for level 1, plus 10 for the Heroic durability feat.

(Edit: And Consititution modifiers are applied retroactively. So if you lose some constitution points or gain constitution points that take your modifier up or down 1, you gain/lose Hit points equal to your current level.)

(Edit 2: Your constitution modifier is -2 for 6-7, -1 for 8-9, 0 for 10-11, +1 for 12-13, +2 for 14-15, +3 for 16-17, +4 for 18-19, +5 for 20-21.)

[Vherid]

So instead of incorporating the hit dice every level, we're only adding con modifiers? Also it's saying we are getting a hit dice per level or am I reading that wrong?

You have a choice to roll your Hit dice at a session, or to take half your hit dice. Your constitution modifier is then added to that number.

You always get the maximum hit dice for level 1, plus 10 for the Heroic durability feat.

(Edit: And Consititution modifiers are applied retroactively. So if you lose some constitution points or gain constitution points that take your modifier up or down 1, you gain/lose Hit points equal to your current level.)

Okay, So having a base 2d12 hitdice because of the Adjusted Level, My stock hp should be 25, with Heroic Durability bringing that up to 35. Then I could choose to add 12+1, or make a roll and potentially get something higher +1 in a session?

[Kogan Loloklam]

Okay, So having a base 2d12 hitdice because of the Adjusted Level, My stock hp should be 25, with Heroic Durability bringing that up to 35. Then I could choose to add 12+1, or make a roll and potentially get something higher +1 in a session?

I think it's actually your first HD, not your first level.
It's probably like this:
Your base is 10+(12+1)+((1d12 or 6)+1). Then your additional level will give (1d12 or 6)+1)
So without rolling dice, you'd be looking at 37 Hit points. With rolling you are looking at between 27-49 Hit points.
I might be wrong since I haven't done level adjustments, but I'm pretty sure that's right.

[Heron TSG]

I made a few pogs that Stihe might be able to use. It's pretty hard to find spellthief pictures, even more so if you're trying to find a not-half-naked halfling female.

The first two are stock spellthief pictures, and not the right hair color according to your sheet, but some easy image manipulation could fix that if you wish. Also they are not halflings, but you can't really tell the scale. The other one is the only one I found that actually matched.

[Vherid]

I think it's actually your first HD, not your first level.
It's probably like this:
Your base is 10+(12+1)+((1d12 or 6)+1). Then your additional level will give (1d12 or 6)+1)
So without rolling dice, you'd be looking at 37 Hit points. With rolling you are looking at between 27-49 Hit points.
I might be wrong since I haven't done level adjustments, but I'm pretty sure that's right.

Right, 10+(12+1)+((1d12 or 6)+1), but I was under the impression that being level adjusted which gives me an extra hit dice would, add the extra hit dice to that [10+(12+1)+((1d12 or 6)+1)+(1d12 or 6)+1)], and then upon level up would either be (1d12 or 6)+1), or (1d12 or 6)+1)+(1d12 or 6)+1), but I don't really know that much.

[Kogan Loloklam]

Curse you! You gave me alternatives!

I already made one off a Halfling thief that had black hair instead of brown (This one, in fact) though that top one looks pretty neat too...
The Bottom one doesn't really seem to be very halflingly to me. I expect halflings to have a certain lust for life, and that one seems depressed.
You are right about scale not mattering, though age would a bit. All of these look a little bit older than what she is. I think human span is 75% of a halfling, so a 15 year old Halfling is more like a 12 year old human. I figure I'm gonna be out of luck for an exact match though, so...

Right, 10+(12+1)+((1d12 or 6)+1), but I was under the impression that being level adjusted which gives me an extra hit dice would, add the extra hit dice to that [10+(12+1)+((1d12 or 6)+1)+(1d12 or 6)+1)], and then upon level up would either be (1d12 or 6)+1), or (1d12 or 6)+1)+(1d12 or 6)+1), but I don't really know that much.

You only get 1 hit dice per level. You would add to that the amount of hit dice you start with

Since you start with a level adjustment, you are only gaining 1 level. So it's your starting number of hit dice + 1 additional hit dice.
The race you chose has 1 additional hit dice, so your starting hit dice would be 2. It isn't 1 additional per level, it's 1 in general

This means your total hit points is 3d12 to start with, then bonuses are added.
Your first hit dice is maxed to 12.
Your second and 3rd hit dice are either 6, or rolled for.
One point is added for every hit dice, so you get +3.
You have Heroic Durability for an additional +10
So you have 12+(6*2)+3+10=37 hit points.

I am not 100% sure about if the second hit dice starts at max 12 or if it is as I described, but I am pretty sure it's as I described.

[Vherid]

You only get 1 hit dice per level. You would add to that the amount of hit dice you start with

Since you start with a level adjustment, you are only gaining 1 level. So it's your starting number of hit dice + 1 additional hit dice.
The race you chose has 1 additional hit dice, so your starting hit dice would be 2. It isn't 1 additional per level, it's 1 in general

This means your total hit points is 3d12 to start with, then bonuses are added.
Your first hit dice is maxed to 12.
Your second and 3rd hit dice are either 6, or rolled for.
One point is added for every hit dice, so you get +3.
You have Heroic Durability for an additional +10
So you have 12+(6*2)+3+10=37 hit points.

I am not 100% sure about if the second hit dice starts at max 12 or if it is as I described, but I am pretty sure it's as I described.

Right that's about what I thought, so we just need to see if that second one is max or not then.

EDIT: Okay I think it's been misinterpreted from the start actually.

"Add this number to the creature’s total Hit Dice, including class levels, to get the creature’s effective character level (ECL). A character’s ECL affects the experience the character earns, the amount of experience the character must have before gaining a new level, and the character’s starting equipment."

So I don't think it actually gives me another hit dice, unless it does from some other rule.

EDIT 2: Also looking around a bit more, I should be level 2, 1st class barb right?

[Kogan Loloklam]

Your class is Barbarian, your level is 2. You should have 3000 EXP currently and 6000 to your next level.
You should probably go with the 37 Hit points and leave it at that unless you want to roll and gamble for more at the risk of less.

(Edit: You should have 3d12 listed for your hit dice, since that is how many you currently have.)

[Vherid]

Your class is Barbarian, your level is 2. You should have 3000 EXP currently and 6000 to your next level.
You should probably go with the 37 Hit points and leave it at that unless you want to roll and gamble for more at the risk of less.

Alright, but the thing is now I'm confused as to whether I actually start with 2 hit dice or not. The race is 1 hit die. But then I thought the level adjustment added a hit dice to that, as well as being level 2 which would be 3. It would make sense because it would be the equivalent of a 3, but then again I'm not sure now.

EDIT: As it currently stands my ECL is 5, with the hit die and class level.

[Kogan Loloklam]

You have 3 Hit Dice. Your race gives 1, Barbarian Class level 1 gives 1, and Barbarian Class level 2 gives 1. That is a total of 3 hit dice.

Your total attack bonus for your sword is gonna be 8+1 for 9. Your melee bonus is 8, the sword's enchantment is 1. That will only apply for a single attack. When you do a double attack your bonus will be -2 for each attack, so for two weapon fighting, it's 7.
That requires a full round attack though, so you will need to know both the 9 and the 7.

(Edit: Also, your strength adds bonus damage. So it's 1d8+5/1d8+5)

(Edit 2: You have too many skillpoints spent. You should have 20, you spent 21. You also have a maximum ranks in a skill capped at 5, you have 7 in intimidate.)