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Total Members Voted: 22

[Kogan Loloklam]

How I read it is the actual pickpocket attempt doesn't provoke the attack of opportunity, it is being seen doing it.

If you are not involved in a fight with a target and they are not actively keeping you at a distance, you can attempt to take an item that they are not wielding from them. This type of disarm attempt is called a pickpocket attempt, and does not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt it. ...

The success or failure of the disarm attempt doesn’t impact whether the target notices the attempt, however, and it’s very possible for them to catch you in the act. To avoid this unpleasant circumstance, you may make a Sleight of Hand check, to hide your attempt. If your attempt is successfully hidden, the target remains unaware of the attempt. This would allow you to rob them further if you wanted. If your attempt to hide the pickpocketing fails, your attempt provokes an attack of opportunity from the target.

[Dsarker]

So what I'm reading it as is you have to make a sleight of hand check either way, but in this case you also have to make a disarm attempt as well.

[Kogan Loloklam]

Yep.
Using the base rules it's a DC 20 check on slight of hand to pickpocket.
For a reference, a DC 20 Preform check (which slight of hand can duplicate) counts as a Great performance.
This means the little street urchins who cut your purse are the equivalent of a level 4-5ish thief or a popular cover band.
For being detected, the opposing spot roll has to beat the slight of hand roll to be seen. This means it's all one roll, with success only if you get a modified 20 or above.

This varient instead turns it into a unarmed attack, with slight of hand being used to "hide" the effect. The spot roll still has to beat the slight of hand to detect, but it no longer requires a DC 20 check to pick someone's pocket. Instead it uses a flat footed attack roll.

Here's how it affects things
I put 6 skillpoints in slight of hand. It is a Cross Class skill for a spellthief. This means it is only 3 Points. With my dex mod it goes up to 7. I also get Synergy of +2 from my bluff skill, so my character has a total of +9 mod to slight of hand.
This means to successfully pick a pocket, I need to get a base dice roll of 11 or more. This is as true from Van as it is from Maelrigar or Ethan. All are subject to my evil pickpocketing ways! Maelrigar would be incapable of seeing a successful pickpocket though, while Ethan would need a roll of 13 or more, and Van would need a roll of 9 or more. Heck, I could steal from the greatest seer in the world if the DM doesn't apply modifiers for sanity's sake.

With this system, I would instead have to beat the touch attack of someone.
This means against Maelrigar it'd be 12 AC vs my +1 to hit for a total of 11 or more on the dice
Against Van, things are a little different. The Monk is able to spot my clumsy touch attack on his pockets much better, as I'd have to beat a whopping 24 for a touch attack. I'm not quite sure if his vows count, but I'm pretty sure they do. I would have to get a natural 20 to get an item off him.
Against Ethan, I'd need an 8 or more to beat his 9 touch ac.
For spotting, Maelrigar is at a severe disadvantage with his -1 for spot, Van is at a minor advantage with his +11 Spot, and Ethan is at a minor disadvantage with his +7 spot. As such, Maelrigar would be unlikely to spot me, although he is just as likely to see me if I got my hand in his bag as if I pulled my hand out with his potion of stealthis. Ethan and Van both would probably spot me either way.

As it says in the bottom of that page, this setup opens the ability to grab an item from someone in a crowd up to anyone and everyone. So finally Maelrigar can get into the lucrative purse snatching business It also makes things more sane without tossing out Modifiers like candy.

[RedWarrior0]

Just letting folks know that I will be questionable at best for the next three weeks due to vacation/camp.

[Dsarker]

So instead the idiot fighter who somehow has managed to get magical full plate armour is harder to pickpocket from than the intelligent wizard who keeps an eye around himself?

[The Fool]

Since my day freed up tomorrow I think I'll write/post my journal tomorrow. If Van clashes with everyone too hard (we have raiders, necromancers, and impulsive warriors) I'd be tempted to swap to a sorcerer and do damage mitigation as an illusionist. You'd be surprised how much damage mitigation can be done with illusions. For example there is a spell that lets me summon 5-6 illusions of myself to run around, so if all went well then it may be a round or two before they do damage. This also would give me a bit more of a challenge in terms of defeating/avoiding enemies. I kind of miss the stealth and lies since I switched to a LG monk.

With that said it would only be if everyone REALLY wants Van to leave. I may miss stealth, but I would also miss the ridiculous AC.

[Dsarker]

Who are the impulsive warriors?

[The Fool]

I was mostly referring to Vaba and Maelrigar who have a tendency to fight when they can reasonably. I'd rather not see more PvP. Once was enough, and even then there was fallout from that battle. I'm thinking that Van would inspire more conflict with his prisoner taking, even more so now that Pheron is gone.

I somehow think Shoruke will see the post before this and go "Damn it Fool, not again!". I don't really have time for more than one session a week so I really can't have more than one character, so this happens a fair amount. It would be nice to not have a character that knows nothing (personally I can't stand being ignorant of something). I'll post a character sheet before I make the journal, mostly for approvals sake. I'm thinking that an illusionist would at least be interesting to play again. If Shoruke approves it I'll write it more of a farewell letter. At least I can RP a personality that I like this way.

Lastly I have been reading up on AC, and it seems that Van's AC is wrong. It seems that most non-armor AC types don't stack. That means that my AC is most likely off by 8 from the misread Vow of Peace. This is why it says to increase Vow of Poverty AC values by +2.

EDIT: So Yeah Dsarker, you may have to play the part of the ships morality. Kind of like Firefly's priest.

[Kogan Loloklam]

So instead the idiot fighter who somehow has managed to get magical full plate armour is harder to pickpocket from than the intelligent wizard who keeps an eye around himself?

Actually, no.
Pheron's touch with magical full plate armor is 12. Granted it's easier to touch Ethan, but Full Plate Armor doesn't actually make a difference.
Wizards have tricks to make it harder to touch them, much more often than fighters do. Also the Eye would only assist in detecting the action, not preventing the action. It's like having someone else watching you. Your wallet can still be lifted with someone else watching you, but you'll know who did it.

You are looking for things like size bonuses and deflection bonuses and other natural bonuses to prevent this. Stuff that protects against touch attacks. This means the wizard is more likely to be protected, and higher level characters are worse targets.

Edit: Also, about problems with Van's prisoner taking, there was actually less conflict about that than there was about other things in the group. Remember that Pheron used to advocate killing the people rather than taking prisoners.
Also, the shackles are still there on Bote, though the Amazing locks are gone

[The Fool]

Regardless I think prisoner taking in itself is going too far. We travel for weeks on end on a tiny bote. I wouldn't want 4-5 prisoners there for that long, because it would get old fast. If anyone remembers I tried to stop using Van a long while ago as well. I just don't like the personality, and with the raiding and battles happening near daily it seems like a waste to use a character that wouldn't join in, even if it is for RP reasons. I enjoy RPing, but 3-4 sessions with little to do or say is kind of getting to me. If I have a different character I can be at least involved in most events. We also seem to be missing someone who knows a lot of illusions anyways.

Besides there are some fairly epic uses for spells like Major Image (with a gnomish illusionist substitution level it's a level 2 spell). For instance I can recreate Monty Python's black knight scene in battle. Either that or I can REALLY mess with someone (exploding people anyone?).

[Kogan Loloklam]

Actually the longest journey possible on Bote is only like 5 days tops. That gets you across the desert completely.

This is why Bote is only setup for 15 days of food currently. If it were an Airship it might be different, but we really have extreme speed and travel ability through the desert.
But do as you want

(Edit: On a Unrelated note, I'm playing with the thought of Improved Feint. I think this would be highly advantageous to a Spellthief. Any thoughts?)

[The Fool]

Improved Feint is handy in the sense that you can easily catch someone flat-footed, which easily leads to a sneak attack. It's good for head on attacks.

Anyways here is my character sheet: Felrook Charbo Darkstone Jakabin Galveron Rush (why do I always pick the long names?). Please note that only 3 of the names are relevant to anyone that isn't a gnome, and I somehow think that Rush might be the name that I'd be called since it's a nickname.

I still need to add the fluff, traits, and flaw, but other than that it should be done. I may have to look up my good friend the magic item compendium again.

[Vherid]

Alright I sent a PM to the OP, but I figure I should post here as well, I'd love to join this but I have never played DnD before. I have always wanted to, but have never been able to, I do have the 3.5 rulebooks that came out like 4-5 years ago or whenever they came out, I have the player book, DM book, and monster manual 1, I have no idea what the hell I'm doing character creation wise, I think I want to play a rogue but who knows.

[Kogan Loloklam]

If you never played D&D before you might want to start out with a fighter, since they tend to be easier to build effectively. Rogues have a tenancy to require you to be familiar with all their little aspects and rules or end up crippling something critical.

Or maybe that's just my bad experience.

[Heron TSG]

Wizards, rangers, fighters, and barbarians all make good starting classes.