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[oso]

so long story short: evil, savage, glacier, salt water, 2x aquifer, epic struggle, sustenance, wealth, epic magma pump under construction, ATTACK! Victory!, but a badly wounded military, decent hospital no worries, everything sealed off... Burt cancels dig, Interrupted by forgotten beast...

How did he get in?

Burt was not digging into new territory he was just expanding a simple room next to my epic magma pump, I have been careful to seal off every single cavern I've found, I just got the water flowing from an underground cavern to power my pumps, but sealed everything with 2x layers of fortifications.

First question: Do forgotten beasts dig into fortresses?

If not: Can they pass through fortifications? OR If I discovered the cavern with an up down stairway breaching it's ceiling about 4 z levels up and built "up" stairways over them could it get through the floor of the stairway? Any other special things I should know about forgotten beasts that could explain how it got in?

I have been incredibly careful to seal off all underground caverns (this one spawned in the one next to my pump)

I've been at this way to long so I'm hitting the sack and will check back tomorrow, but any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

-oso

[Proteus]

If you mean underwater fortifications then yes,
they might pass them with the current...
while this might take a while before it is happen
and FBs cannot deliberately pass underwater fortifications,
it will very probably happen after a time, that they get swept in, so to speak
(even if it might take several years before this happens)

[Valkyrie]

In 31.12 at least, in my experience underwater fortifications act like they're not even there for Forgotten Beasts.  In my 'new' design, my main water cistern is open to the cavern lake, using fortifications to keep it 'secure'.  However, FB's have been happily coming in through the fortifications quite often, or pathing back and forth across them in their little indecisive patrols, etc.  No pause on one side waiting for the current, or any kind of delay or debate implying any kind of impairment is present.  I've actually had to k-inspect the place over and over again to convince myself the fortification is still there, heh.

In 40d, I experienced the 'fortifications block movement, but the current can push things through' plenty.  The way FBs have been interacting with my underwater fortifications in 31.12 seems like a completely different phenomenon, imo.

(and none of these FBs have been gaseous or liquid or the like - they've generally been inorganic, but a few biological ones as well, and all solid)

[jei]

so long story short: evil, savage, glacier, salt water, 2x aquifer, epic struggle, sustenance, wealth, epic magma pump under construction, ATTACK! Victory!, but a badly wounded military, decent hospital no worries, everything sealed off... Burt cancels dig, Interrupted by forgotten beast...

How did he get in?

Burt was not digging into new territory he was just expanding a simple room next to my epic magma pump, I have been careful to seal off every single cavern I've found, I just got the water flowing from an underground cavern to power my pumps, but sealed everything with 2x layers of fortifications.

First question: Do forgotten beasts dig into fortresses?

If not: Can they pass through fortifications? OR If I discovered the cavern with an up down stairway breaching it's ceiling about 4 z levels up and built "up" stairways over them could it get through the floor of the stairway? Any other special things I should know about forgotten beasts that could explain how it got in?

I have been incredibly careful to seal off all underground caverns (this one spawned in the one next to my pump)

I've been at this way to long so I'm hitting the sack and will check back tomorrow, but any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

-oso

I had one that didn't seem to have any wings on it. Yet it flew in. I now presume that any and all FBs can fly.
Also I think it was probably due to some weird save scumming bug perhaps, but one seemed to fly in through fortifications,
(Military orders seem to be retained from the previous game if you save and reload without restarting df, so maybe the FB teleported due to this bug. Also DF doesn't seem to release the memory used in the previous game, thereby doubling the memory usage unless restarted.)

[Proteus]

In 31.12 at least, in my experience underwater fortifications act like they're not even there for Forgotten Beasts.  In my 'new' design, my main water cistern is open to the cavern lake, using fortifications to keep it 'secure'.  However, FB's have been happily coming in through the fortifications quite often, or pathing back and forth across them in their little indecisive patrols, etc.  No pause on one side waiting for the current, or any kind of delay or debate implying any kind of impairment is present.  I've actually had to k-inspect the place over and over again to convince myself the fortification is still there, heh.

In 40d, I experienced the 'fortifications block movement, but the current can push things through' plenty.  The way FBs have been interacting with my underwater fortifications in 31.12 seems like a completely different phenomenon, imo.

(and none of these FBs have been gaseous or liquid or the like - they've generally been inorganic, but a few biological ones as well, and all solid)

Ouch...
I hope that at least they arenīt able to pass floor grates from a level below.
(well, after all they also cannot be destroyed by building destroyers)
This would open up another way for a FB proof well system:

Code: [Select]


W = Well
+ = Fortification
| = Floorgrate
= = Floor
I = Wall
                   ==========W===                     
water level   -----+----I  I----I
                   I    I  I    I
                   I=|========|==
                   I            I
                   I=============

Ideally the forgotten beast should be stopped at either the 1st or 2nd floor grate

[oso]

Wow, thanks for the replies guys it's reassuring to hear they can't just spawn in my fortress. My base is very thoroughly sealed off so I was pretty sure it was coming in through the new diverted stream. If they can come in through fortifications I wouldn't trust a floor grate either... I managed to wall off the section containing the pump just before my temporary steel industry so I've got some time to remake stuff. So now,

Can pumps be destroyed by building destroyers?

[Valkyrie]

Aye, pumps can be destroyed by them.

About the only things that can't be destroyed are:
1) Constructions (b-C stuff)
2) Items that they can't reach (like a statue on the far side of a pit, presuming the FB doesn't fly; there may still be a range greater than 1 for the destruction, so things thy're not adjacent to may still be vulnerable;  Note that things like raised bridges, raised floodgates, and the like, *are* still destroyable)
3) Bug: items directly above the building destroyer's head (like a hatch on a single stairwell, that the destroyer approaches from below)

At least, those are the only categories that come to mind.  I've found that building destroyers usually leave (lowered) bridges alone, but love to destroy grates.


For Proteus' proposal, I think that'd work.  Pretty sure the initial grate would be toast, but the second grate (that would be approached from below) should be immune, if I understand the bug right.  And it gets around the usual grate-and-well conflict by using pressure to get the water above the grate, while still using the grate for protection - seems obvious in retrospect, but never occured to me for this style of reservoir.  Will have to give that a try, thanks

[Quietust]

I have yet to observe a building destroyer knocking down a drawbridge that was covering a set of ramps. I've found such a setup to be quite effective at keeping forgotten beasts out of my fortress (as well as trapping goblins and trolls in my floodable entrance during sieges).

Code: [Select]

Open:
▓...▓
▓...▓ ▓▓▓▓▓
▓▼▼▼▓ ▓▲▲▲▓
▓╞═╡▓ ▓...▓
▓▓▓▓▓ ▓...▓

Closed:
▓...▓
▓╔═╗▓ ▓▓▓▓▓
▓║+║▓ ▓▲▲▲▓
▓╚═╝▓ ▓...▓
▓▓▓▓▓ ▓...▓

[Valkyrie]

Ah, good point.  My entrances use a similar idea, but more for maintenace / wagon reasons - ramps into and out of pits that hold my traps and such, covered with a retracting bridge so that they can be bypassed for whatever reason.  I've never had a building destroyer kill one of those bridges when it was deployed - has proven a handy way to 'protect' deathpits full of destroyable stuff.