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[JanusTwoface]

Since you guys are here, opinions are welcome regarding the cheating question and the modkill vs. replace question.

What do you mean by cheating?  If I ever mod, blatant cheating will result in a modkill and the refusal to ever let that person in my games again.  Simple as that.  If it's something less well defined, it has to be on a case by case basis.  Depends on how badly it breaks the game.

So far as modkill vs. replace (I'm guessing when they're lurking?), I'd say modkill.  It's hard to find replacements and harder for them to catch up in the game and for everyone to adjust their reads accordingly (from nothing to something considering the circumstances).  Just kill them and move on with the game and (at least hopefully) people will stop lurking.

That's not to say that people cannot request replacements.  If they do, they're still expected to play actively until a replacement shows up or be modkilled.

Mostly though, it'd be up to the mods IMO.

Maybe I'm too harsh... I dunno...

Stop being a nuisance Elegy, ever since you've had that new avatar you've been an asshole.

Oh well fuck me for trying to get you guys to make your own thread.

You don't need Webadict or Eduren to make a thread, you can go do it on your own. It's not that hard, honest, I have total faith you can press the "new topic" button all by yourself!

Why?  A new thread for a new attendance board should be started by whoever will maintain the thread so they can edit the OP.  This game is over and provoked the conversation due to the extensive lurking, so it seems to me to be a good place for it.

If you want the forum to stop telling you about new posts to this thread, just click the 'Unnotify' button.  It's not that hard.

[Zathras]

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion with breadbocks.

It's entirely possible that he thought he found a loophole and was trying to use it.  Power to him.  It's not like people weren't gloating about winning before the game was actually over or anything...

And when Ottofar did come in later and ended the game (with almost definitely the correct vengeance kill), it's not like breakbocks complained about it.  Granted, he didn't post at all, but for all we know he would have been good about it.

So really, just lay off about it.  I doubt he thought that what he was doing was cheating, ergo he wasn't setting off trying to cheat the system.

Well, he did say it was a "backup plan" that he'd use if he hit town with the first one and after the scum claimed. So, like IronyOwl said, if his first kill was good, he'd take it, but if it missed, he'd weasel out of it. That's the definition of cheating.

But maybe I am blowing it out of proportion. I will agree with whatever verdict is achieved through consensus, including Ottofar's (VM2 mod) opinion. This would not make me rescind my edict of not playing with him, though.

Heck, what if things had gone onto the next day?
There's nothing at all in the game or in any sort of established behaviors that would have compelled Pandarsenic to follow this:

* If he flips town, Ottofar, Pandarsenic has agreed to vote Pandarsenic (only in that case, and it's his vote, not mine)

For one: he never even said that he would self-vote.  You did.  All he did was vote breadbocks.  Even if he had, why in the world would he do it?  Doesn't make sense.
Would you have complained about it when he wasn't forced to vote himself?

We went through that conversation after the VM2 game ended. I originally thought he would have been compelled to do it, but was convinced that I was in error. So no, as of today, I wouldn't complain. Not the same at all, though.

[Elegy]

You don't have to get so angry Elegy.

I'm not angry, I'm just matching Zathras' eloquent tone, and how he talks to people (cause he's really smart, you can tell by the long posts.)

If you want the forum to stop telling you about new posts to this thread, just click the 'Unnotify' button.  It's not that hard.

Oh, if only that button existed.

[JanusTwoface]

Well, he did say it was a "backup plan" that he'd use if he hit town with the first one and after the scum claimed. So, like IronyOwl said, if his first kill was good, he'd take it, but if it missed, he'd weasel out of it. That's the definition of cheating.

I realize that I'm reading this after it's all well and done, but I'm not sure that was actually his intention at all.  I'm guessing that he really did mean to kill Pandarsenic and if Ottofar had ended the day, that would have been that.

The situation got quite a bit more complicated when people started revealing their roles before the kill went through.  It gave him the actual opportunity to discover the 'loophole'.

In 20/20 hindsight, it probably would have been better to lock the thread between the lynch have the vengekill PMed to the mod.  Maybe that's just me, I'll suggest it I've suggested it.

[JanusTwoface]

If you want the forum to stop telling you about new posts to this thread, just click the 'Unnotify' button.  It's not that hard.

Oh, if only that button existed.

It ... does?  Or is this another forum notification versus email notification thing?  For me in the bottom right of the last post, there's a list of buttons: Reply, Unnotify, Mark Unread, Send This Topic, Print.  That's always worked great for me, I never get emails from them again (unless I reenable it).

[Zathras]

Since you guys are here, opinions are welcome regarding the cheating question and the modkill vs. replace question.

What do you mean by cheating?  If I ever mod, blatant cheating will result in a modkill and the refusal to ever let that person in my games again.  Simple as that.  If it's something less well defined, it has to be on a case by case basis.  Depends on how badly it breaks the game.

Mostly about how it should reflect in the ranking board, if it should incur an immediate F ranking, and also whether breadbocks fits this case and should be the first F of the new board. But I agree with what you say above.

So far as modkill vs. replace (I'm guessing when they're lurking?), I'd say modkill.  It's hard to find replacements and harder for them to catch up in the game and for everyone to adjust their reads accordingly (from nothing to something considering the circumstances).  Just kill them and move on with the game and (at least hopefully) people will stop lurking.

That's not to say that people cannot request replacements.  If they do, they're still expected to play actively until a replacement shows up or be modkilled.

Mostly though, it'd be up to the mods IMO.

Maybe I'm too harsh... I dunno...

I share this position. The question was about standard prodding guidelines; we, I think, all agree that after two prods, their rating should drop and the game should continue without the lurker. The question is if a forced replace (the currently default option) is correct, or if a modkill would be preferable. I say modkill, but agree it's up to the game mod to specify ahead of time.

[Elegy]

If you want the forum to stop telling you about new posts to this thread, just click the 'Unnotify' button.  It's not that hard.

Oh, if only that button existed.

It ... does?  Or is this another forum notification versus email notification thing?  For me in the bottom right of the last post, there's a list of buttons: Reply, Unnotify, Mark Unread, Send This Topic, Print.  That's always worked great for me, I never get emails from them again (unless I reenable it).

It's for email

so I still have to listen to you fucks talk about how breadbocks is an inferior F rank for playing differently and how you all want to have an S-rank circle jerk where everyone posts every gog damn minute of every gog damn day.

[Zathras]

Elegy, you don't have to do anything you don't want. I repeat if you didn't get it the first time: if you are not interested, then.... go elsewhere (said he, to avoid hurting fragile sensitivities). What do you care if others are talking about things you don't care about? I'm sure there's something good on TV, or go outside, or something. You don't have to read every word posted on the board.

Make a new thread for this garbage. Fuck.

Nobody is forcing you to read. If you're not interested, fuck off.

We do what we want.

[Elegy]

Every time this thread pops up into my "subscribed thread" notification dealie, I am obligated to read it, because it might have something to do with the game I just played. But no, it's all about some class ranking system that would only serve to clear out this board of anyone who just wanted to play mafia for fun.

The other discussion is about a different game entirely. A game that is still open to be commented on.

And yes, you certainly are free to do what you want. You're just a douche for it.

[Zai]

Every time this thread pops up into my "subscribed thread" notification dealie, I am obligated to read it, because it might have something to do with the game I just played. But no, it's all about some class ranking system that would only serve to clear out this board of anyone who just wanted to play mafia for fun.

Personal solution: do not open this thread ever again.

The other discussion is about a different game entirely. A game that is still open to be commented on.

This is a valid point.

And yes, you certainly are free to do what you want. You're just a douche for it.

And acting like you are makes you less of a "douche" than him?

[Elegy]

Every time this thread pops up into my "subscribed thread" notification dealie, I am obligated to read it, because it might have something to do with the game I just played. But no, it's all about some class ranking system that would only serve to clear out this board of anyone who just wanted to play mafia for fun.

Personal solution: do not open this thread ever again.

I am far too OCD about checking all my replied-to threads to do that.

And yes, you certainly are free to do what you want. You're just a douche for it.

And acting like you are makes you less of a "douche" than him?

I will gladly meet his levels of douchiness if it will get him to follow the fucking forum rules.

[ToonyMan]

Close your eyes and sing.

[Zathras]

Every time this thread pops up into my "subscribed thread" notification dealie, I am obligated to read it, because it might have something to do with the game I just played.

Oh, woe is you. How you cope with such terrible indignities, I know not. Suggestion: since the game is long over, and the discussion has clearly moved on, maybe unsubscribe it? But whatever.

But no, it's all about some class ranking system that would only serve to clear out this board of anyone who just wanted to play mafia for fun.

This is an interesting point. The purpose of the attendance ranking system is to encourage and increase attendance, not the contrary. Hopefully, however, it will get rid of those who cheat, flake, break games, fail to "play to win", or the like. I think this is positive. Do you agree? Does the fact that there will be an attendance board disturb you, would it decrease your enjoyment of the game, intimidate you, or otherwise make you "clear out"? Why, can you elaborate?

[Toady One]

As far as I can tell, the game is over, so I'm going to lock the thread with this argument going on without cleaning things up.