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[JanusTwoface]

Hey now, I have a policy of not lurking.

And you did a decent job of it.  Your teammates, not so much.  At least not until Zathras replaced in.

[Pandarsenic]

Us getting away with this is why the subforum is in such a sorry state. I want everyone to see that I wrote this here and now when this game is over.

Here's a thought, why don't you just not do it?  Play the games you're in, be active as scum or town.  Would make the games a lot more interesting and probably do some wonders for everyone's scum game (you have to be sneak *and* active).

Because it was working. It was bullshit but I was getting away with it so I kept doing it. Then I did a tactical replacement request and then came back in and was active because the game needed it :I

[Zathras]

In principle, and in a game/board with sufficient activity, I'd agree, but I think the metagame concept of keeping a game alive must take precedence. If lurking is killing the game, scum or not, kill the lurkers.

The problem is there is too many lurkers.  If they get mod-killed this might be feasible...

Yes, mod-kill the lurkers is what I meant.

Eduren, in the context of your proposed new attendance board, there should be some proposed lurking/prodding guidelines for people to use. I propose the following:
- Prod after 48hrs of inactivity (or some other number); maybe scum can respond to this prod on scumchat, but I'd suggest the opposite: they must post on main thread.
- Second prod is modkill. No ifs, ands or or buts. If this ends the game (due to lylo or roles or whatever), so be it.
- Posting on thread does not reset the prod count. If you are prodded, come in and say "yeah yeah I'm here" and then vanish again, next prod is still modkill, not another friendly prod.
- End of day resets prod status.

Only after a few modkills will the training take. Like or not, players have been conditioned through reward and punishment to believe that lurking is OK and even a viable strategy. If this must change, it will take some blood.

Thoughts?

(This in preparation of Eduren's upcoming topic to discuss, we can move this there when it's up. Or tell me to shut up.)

[Elegy]

forum mafia

the most serious of business

[JanusTwoface]

Eduren, in the context of your proposed new attendance board, there should be some proposed lurking/prodding guidelines for people to use. I propose the following:
- Prod after 48hrs of inactivity (or some other number); maybe scum can respond to this prod on scumchat, but I'd suggest the opposite: they must post on main thread.
- Second prod is modkill. No ifs, ands or or buts. If this ends the game (due to lylo or roles or whatever), so be it.
- Posting on thread does not reset the prod count. If you are prodded, come in and say "yeah yeah I'm here" and then vanish again, next prod is still modkill, not another friendly prod.
- End of day resets prod status.

This.  Or something maybe a little stricter depending on how long days are scheduled to last.  And you have to post in the main thread.  I'd go so far as to say you have to post something 'useful' but that's getting a bit too subjective for a mod probably.

[Criptfeind]

I suggest that the scum can ignore prods or respond in chat if he is really missing and it is up to the town to find out that a guy that is suppose to be mod killed or prodded is not.

[Eduren]

You weren't here for Dakarians Board. It did its job without severely punishing people. I think the benefit from a Board would be to give slight incentives to being active. As video game achievements have shown us, you don't need large rewards for people to pursue them.

I'm not for a harsh black-and-white system bacause I don't think we need one yet. And if we ever do, I don't think I'll still be here by the time it got that bad. I'm just trying to encourage active playstyles and if it doesn't work then  at least I tried.

[Vector]

Yeah, use the Dakarian model--and reinstate the S rank.  It had pretty harsh consequences, in any case, so long as we also reinstate the rank requirements on our games.

[Pandarsenic]

As soon as it's back I nominate breadbocks for an F-rank for his admitted attempt at utter bullshit in Vengeful2.

[Eduren]

Yeah, use the Dakarian model--and reinstate the S rank.  It had pretty harsh consequences, in any case, so long as we also reinstate the rank requirements on our games.

Throwing S ranks out. They didn't really serve a purpose.

[Vector]

Yeah, use the Dakarian model--and reinstate the S rank.  It had pretty harsh consequences, in any case, so long as we also reinstate the rank requirements on our games.

Throwing S ranks out. They didn't really serve a purpose.

Yes, they do.  Incentive to be a really good player, rather than just a punch-clock "hokay, I posted" person.

[Zathras]

You weren't here for Dakarians Board. It did its job without severely punishing people. I think the benefit from a Board would be to give slight incentives to being active. As video game achievements have shown us, you don't need large rewards for people to pursue them.

I'm not for a harsh black-and-white system bacause I don't think we need one yet. And if we ever do, I don't think I'll still be here by the time it got that bad. I'm just trying to encourage active playstyles and if it doesn't work then  at least I tried.

I wasn't here, but I read of it and its effects in my lurking period before I started joining games. Prods did bring people's ratings down (and Dak's were 24hrs!), and it could be quite punitive. I remember Solifuge's rating plummeting for daring to edit a post to add a funny image in the (Org run) Aztec mafia. It didn't just track gold stars for good behaviour, like achivements, it also gave out black eyes for flaking, lurking, editing, and so on. And rules must be black and white if they are to be objectively interpreted and numerically tracked.

I do suggest something that at least threatens to be punitive precisely to avoid the situation getting that bad. We need a course correction, and perhaps some retraining. Maybe we want to be specific if the attendance tracking board would see lurking detracting as part of its scope.

In any case, just like with Dak's, all guidelines would be optional for a game's Mod; they could (and can now) decide for themselves which rules are mandatory or obligatory in their own games.

[Zathras]

Yeah, use the Dakarian model--and reinstate the S rank.  It had pretty harsh consequences, in any case, so long as we also reinstate the rank requirements on our games.

Throwing S ranks out. They didn't really serve a purpose.

As Vector said, they certainly do, especially in the videogame "Achievements" model that you cited earlier. Lots of good stuff have to happen to games and the board for a person to unlock that achievement.

[Eduren]

Yeah, use the Dakarian model--and reinstate the S rank.  It had pretty harsh consequences, in any case, so long as we also reinstate the rank requirements on our games.

Throwing S ranks out. They didn't really serve a purpose.

Yes, they do.  Incentive to be a really good player, rather than just a punch-clock "hokay, I posted" person.

I don't see why we need anything above an A. I don't think anybody aspired to be an S-rank, I know I didn't.

But this is all stuff we can iron out when I lay out what I've planned so far.

[Vector]

I don't see why we need anything above an A. I don't think anybody aspired to be an S-rank, I know I didn't.

I did.  But I'm a bit of a twerp, so maybe it was just me.