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[Aqizzar]

I just played my first two games, in Classic mode on Easy.  I'm managing a shitty bunch of Skaven ('cause they're fast and adorable), and both games were absolute nail-biters.  The first was against Lizardmen - somehow, we managed to clobber each other all over the place.  Score was 2-2, with me one more away from scoring another touchdown.

Second game was against Dwarves - it was a bloodbath, but somehow I won.  Luck, mostly.  The whole first half was subsumed in one play, as the Stunties just clobbered me, and kept clobbering, and kept clobbering, until the clock ran out as the whole team took the round on the chin.  I was only saved from them scoring when their runner tried for a full-move and tripped.  The second half was another circus act, as the ball changed hands four times in one play.  At one point, even my Rat Orge was trying to score when he got ganged up on by a bunch of beardies.  At one point, my entire team began the turn laying down.  But by some crazy miracle, my surviving Runner grabbed reversed two tackles, grabbed the ball, and comfortably danced into the endzone, with just enough time on the clock for the Dwarves to pout about it.

I suspect if I knew a damn thing about football I might be doing better.  My one-off game of Dark Elves didn't fare even that well.

When you buy the next edition that's coming out, they are selling you 10 more teams' worth of miniatures.  Again, compare that price to the cost of actually buying those figures in real life.  You are spending insanely less than a real hobbyist.  This company's business model is "design a super awesome, really well balanced game, and then make all your money by selling miniatures to people".  And when you keep that in mind, their business model for the games makes a lot of sense...from their perspective at least.

And this is exactly why Games Workshop is so paranoid about stuff like VASSAL.  When you play essentially the same game, with players anywhere in the world, without the debatable headache of painting miniatures, for at least half the cost of actually buying the figures (and that's just for Bloodbowl, at full price instead of $10), why in God's name would anyone want to buy the actual figures?  Which is part of why their prices keep going up, because have to make money off the more-or-less shrinking core of people actually interested in buying them.

Something I just though off - Games Workshop is based out of Nottingham, England.  Why the heck would they make a game about American Football.

[nenjin]

Because...it's American football, and Europeans think it's hilariously violent? (Because it is.) BB owes a lot to Rugby as well. It's more the over-the-top nature, and the flavor surrounding the pitch, that they used American football for.

I suspect if I knew a damn thing about football I might be doing better.

Nah. Knowledge of football really doesn't do anything for you here, except outline your offensive/defensive options a little better. BB is all it's own as far as the rules go.

Protip: Shoving players off the pitch (off the side lines) is an automatic knockout on that character.

If the stunties give you problems, push them to the edge of the pitch, and just start shoving bitches into the crowd.

If you have guys lined up like this..

--------------------
           X
         0 0 0


The AI will always try and stand that player up, and dodge out so they aren't standing next to the sidelines. They basically just get the shit beaten out of them until they either get wounded, get shoved out, or escape, and if they escape, you just reposition, blitz, and start over again.

[Zai]

Because American Football works better for the concept than that Football sport that gets a World Cup every few years.

Just bought BB. Gonna play it if my computer allows.

[janekk]

Which is part of why their prices keep going up, because have to make money off the more-or-less shrinking core of people actually interested in buying them.

Something I just though off - Games Workshop is based out of Nottingham, England.  Why the heck would they make a game about American Football.

Why even less people want to buy their stuff and look for other ways to enjoy their games? Because its so damn frikkin expensive (and prices constantly go up) and in the end what you get is just few lumps of plastic, imagine if that would be done in China, 2000p army for 20$? Look at Privateer Press. There is really well done Vassal module for Warmachine/Hordes. Not only they didn't sue creator but there is thread about it on official forum and they took care of all legal stuff. See? It can be done. Also another reason why GW fails http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/09/gws-shameful-history-at-pax.html  Its a good read.

And Rugby was invented by Brits. Just so happens that it happened in city called Rugby.

[nenjin]

FWIW, GWS tends to only put their time and effort into their own events. They've built entire set pieces for their stores over in Britain. A full tavern with a cafeteria, an entire wall mocked up to look like a castle wall...

I think GWS has always had a bunker mentality. Aggressively, psychotically defend the IP against infringement, focus almost all their love on events and locations they can have complete control (GWS stores, Europe more than the US) and try to extend the IP every few years through different mediums. Since GWS has gotten into the video gaming business with actual success (Dawn of War) I think they've significantly dialed back their operations pretty much everywhere else.

[Fikes]

I enjoyed Blood Bowl. I'd definitly join a B12 league if we got one together.
I was playing skaven in single player, it was so fun. They are not for the fient of heart, that is for sure, if you get an unlucky roll it could ruin all your plans. But on the other hand, when you got that lucky roll and your gutter runner DID make it to the endzone and your pitch from one guy to your QB DID work and your QB DID throw it right, it was down right awesome.

I think BB does a very good job of at least lessening the RNG aspect by letting you buy re-rolls.

[Sowelu]

Oh hey, just noticed something interesting.  You can only use the Dodge skill once per player per turn.  So keep a real close eye on the die rolls...If you see your stunty get forced to use his dodge, and you still have stuff to do that turn, you might want to leave him sitting there.

As a corollary, forcing your opponent to dodge through 2+ squares is even more effective than you might think.  And even if you have Agi 4 and Dodge, the odds are against you if you have to dodge through three squares.  Keep that in mind when setting up to kick:  If you pile up all your guys on the line of scrimmage, you force someone to dodge three times if they want to dodge through.

Also: The rules say that nothing can be re-rolled more than once.  As far as I can tell, yes, that means that Dodge critters can't use a team reroll on their dodge (so keep that in mind).  But what about the Pro skill?  I bought it on a Wood Elf Catcher on my first team, but it seems like that was a really bad idea.  I won't block with them, so the only rolls they'll ever do are Dodge and Catch...and they already re-roll those, so Pro won't give them a second re-roll.  Anyone got counterevidence against that?  If not, I'd say that Pro is really only ideal for linesmen, or other people like that...folks who just might need to throw, catch, dodge or GFI but don't want to buy all those skills.  Seems kind of risky though.  Also, does Pro let you re-roll blocks?  I've never seen it happen...but maybe I just got unlucky on my Pro roll.

I'd very much like to set up a B12 league.  Maybe we should give it a little time...get settled in, figure out what teams we like to play, adjust to the rules, then start it up.  I rarely do anything with the B12 Steam group, but I'll happily get involved in this.

[nenjin]

I have such a hard time with leagues, tbh, but I'll give it a try if it get started. I get really attached to my players, and I'm not that great of a player. I can score like the dickens with Skaven...but the last time I played my brother, who is a TT Blood Bowl vet of some skill, on a hot seat game...I won by a point....after he murdered half my team.

[Sowelu]

...Wow, damn.  When you're playing low-point games, the lizardmen are easy as pie; low strength hurts real bad.  But at higher point values, suddenly they bring in 4 STR critters, and...ouch, just ouch.

Still, my chaos team is holding up nicely.

Is there any reason not to buy up to the max of 8 team re-rolls before anything else (besides your players)?  They're fairly costly, but they really are a wonderful asset to have around...

[nenjin]

...Wow, damn.  When you're playing low-point games, the lizardmen are easy as pie; low strength hurts real bad.  But at higher point values, suddenly they bring in 4 STR critters, and...ouch, just ouch.

Yeah. Lizardmen are one of the nastiest teams out there, IMO. They do everything, their quick guys are quick! and their big guys get OMG DON'T HURT me strong.

Is there any reason not to buy up to the max of 8 team re-rolls before anything else (besides your players)?  They're fairly costly, but they really are a wonderful asset to have around...

Well they add to your team value, which I think has some impact on the course of the game, either the opponents you face or how fast they develop. I dunno, tbh. As far as I've read, no, there's no reason not to.

[Sowelu]

Is there any reason not to buy up to the max of 8 team re-rolls before anything else (besides your players)?  They're fairly costly, but they really are a wonderful asset to have around...

Well they add to your team value, which I think has some impact on the course of the game, either the opponents you face or how fast they develop. I dunno, tbh. As far as I've read, no, there's no reason not to.

Hm...Okay, true dat.  High team value is not all that desirable.  If your team has a much higher value than your opponent, they're going to get some pretty nasty inducements.  With just four team re-rolls and some nicely leveled players, I'm facing off against a star player pretty much every single battle.  (Mind you, my minotaur beats the crap out of them almost instantly, but still.)

This is going to turn into a real balancing act.

[Deadmeat1471]

To be honest this is a great game, the rules are faithful and the graphics more than sufficient, my only gripe would be as far as i know you can speed up the animations, so games can take a while. Other than that, a great buy!

[Cthulhu]

Hrm, I seem to have been given a die that's all 1s.

I'm playing Chaos now, all that ball nonsense is just a recipe for failed rolls.

My team roster consists of:

Kruul the Heartless - Chaos Warrior
Khagroth Doom - Chaos Warrior
Grom, Eater of Flesh - Chaos Warrior
The Carnifex - Minotaur
Sheila Snugglefriend - Beastman
Gurth the Defiler - Beastman
Marr - Beastman
Violatron 09 - Beastman (This name is reserved for if I ever start a band)
Snagh Bonegnaw - Beastman
Mor of the Bloody Horns - Beastman
Gruush Gruush - Beastman

I think we've got a good shot at winning at least the Clean Loser Cup That I've Never Won.

No wait, nevermind.  Dice are still made of 1s.

[Aqizzar]

Hrm, I seem to have been given a die that's all 1s.

I'm playing Chaos now, all that ball nonsense is just a recipe for failed rolls.

No wait, nevermind.  Dice are still made of 1s.

Three turns.  Three failures to pick up the ball on a 2+.  Remember, the 1 in 1/256 means it is still possible.  Why the fuck am I so addicted to this cruel game?

I have born witness to the best and worst play ever.  I snatched up the ball from my Chaotic opponents.  I was one long run away from a touchdown.  I chose instead to try to tackle and foul a guy, because that's what Dark Elves do.  This wastes a turn, which nearly boxes in the guy with the ball.  He's got dudes on three sides, but with some clever maneuvering, I reduced that to one possible attack as he slipped out backwards and around the edge, with just enough movement to make it.  Two sprint rolls.  He needed to make a dodge and two sprint rolls.

Dodge makes it.  First sprint roll makes it.  Second sprint roll fails.  And he dies.

HE FUCKING DIES

One of my Blitzers tried to run a game-winning touchdown, but tripped on the 1-yard line and fucking died.  A beastman runs up and grabs the ball, but then another blows a tackle, giving the turn back to me.  The beastman is stuck picking his nose, standing on the edge of the pitch, two steps from his own endzone.  A lineman who was standing by himself runs up, single-handedly checks him out of bounds to certain doom, and with his blitz moves manages (finally) to pick up the ball and stroll into a game-winning score.

Then I nearly let them score again when I left a wide open hole in my line on their return play, only for the clock to run out one play from my line.  Holy crap, I'm bad at judging my moves.

[Cthulhu]

That's pretty rough, I'm playing Chaos again, this time as an all Beastman (At first, I got a chaos warrior after my second game), 6 fanfactor, 4 reroll team.  The rerolls mean we're actually half decent at playing the ball, and a high fan factor can be hilarious if there's a pitch invasion.  I'm doing turn-based blitz mode for the extra inducements.  Basic mode has so few inducements and they're so expensive that you can't afford anything unless the teams are so far apart the inducements won't make a difference.

Also, Skaven vs. Orkz is painful to watch.  My Ork team caused three casualties on the first turn, including one death.