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[janekk]

Looks fun, especially in multi with custom leagues and tournaments but I think I'll pass and wait for Legendary. On that note is there date on it yet?

[Sowelu]

God damn this is awesome.

I had a ton of luck with my elves, (though you need lots of reserve players because their armor is terrible).  They rarely fail to pick up the ball or hand off, the wardancers with their average strength + block + dodge are great (support them with someone else and they get 2+ dice and can only go down 1/36th of the time), plus the catchers are surprisingly awesome. (9 move + dodge + catch...stuff them behind enemy lines to slow them down on critical plays.  Sure you'll get blocked for 2 dice, but you can't block and move on the same turn unless it's a blitz, and if they dodge instead, strength doesn't matter)

I also had a ton of luck with chaos.  They're great for sheer brutality.  Kind of weird though, mostly their players are pretty average, but I'm guessing they'll become a lot cooler with strength and mutation upgrades.  ('Tentacles' looks cool + is useful against stunties.)

Chaos against Lizardmen...man, that was sheer brutality.  Playing on normal difficulty in a Blitz campaign, I usually created five casualties by the end of the game.  At the end of one match there were only three enemy players left on the pitch, and my ball carrier was helping seven other guys to crowd around one of them and kick him to pieces.  I think that match ended with four long-term injuries and two deaths...  "Pile On" with a minotaur is hilarious.

It was pretty worthwhile, though.  I played against the same team two more times in that cup, and they were short some players and the ones they did have had stat penalties.  Here's a tip, though:  If you're going to use fouling as part of your long-term strategy, aim for their Big Guys.  It's awfully nice if you can take away their big anchors like that...and the Big Guys often have minimal armor!  Plus, hey, they're the expensive ones and I think they only get replaced by linesmen if the team is assigned mercenaries.


I would disagree on some of the strategic ordering.  Passes, even with elves and stuff, are some of the highest risk things you can do.  I NEVER use Go For It unless I'm making a field goal on that exact turn (or unless it means the difference between being blitzed on an FG run and being completely out of range).  GFI is a flat 1/6 chance of falling over per extra square, regardless of agility, and 1/6 is very much not a free roll...plus, if you were using GFI, you probably really needed to get wherever you were going, and it's just no good to be flat on your face with no tackle zones.  I always do 2+ die blocks before passing, and remember that dodging with agility 4 is less risky than blocking with 1 die, giving a 5/6 chance of success (if dodging into a square with no tackle zones).  If you have an agility of 4, get 'dodge' as soon as possible to boost that chance to 35/36; otherwise, 'block' is an absolutely great first skill.  It's a good idea to keep your skills simple, I've found.  Don't go for fancy maneuvers; just give yourself a solid backbone.  (Although giving someone Kick ASAP is incredibly useful...the sooner you can stop kicking off the pitch, the better!)

And yeah, totally make sure you read through the rules, or you'll miss little things.  Heck, dodging is easier than I had expected...it gets a bonus +1 chance (like some other actions), which can vastly, vastly increase your odds.

Anyone fancy a game tonight?

[Toaster]

Re fouling: If your opponent has a Wardancer with two str increases, you're doing the world a favor by fouling the holy hell out of him- assuming you can get him down to begin with.

[nenjin]

I make an exception for War Dancers. You gotta put them elves down quickly and early. In one of my older campaigns, my Chaos team ran into the Legendary Wood Elf Star Player two games in a row. Block, Dodge, Step-aside, virtually every annoying defensive skill in the book.

He left both games with permanent injuries.

Re: The look. Other than the two key BS, I don't find much to complain about. Yes, 3d rainbows don't shoot out of anyone's asses, but if you're not playing BB for the rules, you probably shouldn't be playing it all.

[Cthulhu]

Aargghhh, you guys are making me want to start playing again, even though the game could have only been more infuriating if it flashed "u mad?" after every play.

[nenjin]

I think DF at least somewhat prepares people to deal with BB. Somewhat.

[Sowelu]

Aargghhh, you guys are making me want to start playing again, even though the game could have only been more infuriating if it flashed "u mad?" after every play.

Nuffle is the god of Blood Bowl, the equivalent of worshipping or fearing the RNG.  Fear Nuffle.  Respect Nuffle.  And when your star player decides to "Go For It" just one square for the game-winning touchdown, fails the roll with no team rerolls available, fails his armor roll, and rolls death on the injury table...know that it is all the will of Nuffle, and worry not.  Nuffle works in mysterious ways, and he looks upon every team equally in time.

[Cthulhu]

Well I hate Nuffle >:C

[janekk]

That d6 randomness is part of the game and works for both sides. Personally I think its more fun than irritating. Makes game more exciting with surprising turnovers. It sucks to be screwed by bad dice roll but its that much more awesome to score lucky touchdown for last minute win (no risk = no fun). If that doesn't help you just act like coach (you are one after all) and blame your players for having wooden legs and two left hands. Just don't blame them too loudly or your neighbours will call law enforcement  .

Damn I'm tempted to buy it but I wouldn't want to find out later that legendary is full price standalone   . I hope they release it soon and at sane price so we can get Bay12 league going. Oh and that you can play matches with regular BB owners like CoH did.

[nenjin]

Oh and that you can play matches with regular BB owners like CoH did.

They've already confirmed you can't. You can see each other through the league framework and chat, but you can't play games together.

Like I said, love the game, love the IP, but Cyanide can die in a fire. They're initial release of BB was amateur, and rather than using the profits to enhance the already existing product, they're scrapping it for a whole new title. I'm guessing in part to satiate GWS need for profits. Bastards.

[janekk]

That's stupid. They are cutting their own sales. What's better, completely new independent title or new title with already established player base? Sure they might think that people won't buy new one otherwise but honestly they would anyway if they like game, its 12 new teams and other goodies, that's a lot considering regular has 8.

[nenjin]

I'm guessing their conversation with GWS went something like this:

GWS: Hey. How did BB do?
Cyan: Not so well.
GWS: That's unfortunate. You barely covered half of what the game offered.
Cyan: We know....but we're still planning to do more?
GWS: Yeah. Not with the amount of money you made us on BB, you're not.
Cyan: But...but....
GWS: How about this. You guys make an entirely new game, sell it for another $50, don't fuck up the distribution this time around and we won't yank the contract from you.
Cyan: But...but....well...I guess we can just use all the team models and code from the original BB...
GWS: That's right, you can. Now get working, you code jockeys.
Cyan: Yes master. Thank you master.

[janekk]

...rather than using the profits to enhance the already existing product, they're scrapping it for a whole new title.

Hmm... but look at it other way. They are enhancing their already existing product. They just want to sell it as completely separate game, something that should be called expansion pack or DLC. There would be nothing wrong with making it standalone (even better since its good way to introduce new players) if it worked like it should (meaning was compatible with regular game). What's next? Buying patches as standalone full priced games?

As for GW. I wouldn't be surprised if that's really the case. They are jackasses. Just wait till they sue Toady because we are using their copyrighted names on his forum. Just you wait.

[Sowelu]

It makes perfect sense when you look at their pre-existing business model.  They give the rules away for free, but they make their money by selling miniatures and facilitating tournaments.

For the first Blood Bowl computer game, they sold you like 10 teams worth of animated miniatures, and hooked you into this big global tournament thing that you can play from your living room, AND automated a lot of the rules.  For like 50$, tops.  How freaking awesome is that.  If you're used to playing tabletop wargames, that is cheap as all hell.  The only downside is that you can't paint them yourself...which I guess is a fairly big downside, but still.

When you buy the next edition that's coming out, they are selling you 10 more teams' worth of miniatures.  Again, compare that price to the cost of actually buying those figures in real life.  You are spending insanely less than a real hobbyist.  This company's business model is "design a super awesome, really well balanced game, and then make all your money by selling miniatures to people".  And when you keep that in mind, their business model for the games makes a lot of sense...from their perspective at least.

[nenjin]

It always makes sense on their end. And yes, this is basically what GWS does. Get you hooked into a franchise, get you to drop hundreds of dollars, then "update" that franchise and tell players they should buy new core rule books and figs, for shit loads of cash.

And since I'm playing this game as a computer hobbyist, and not a table top player, the ratio of figs to cost doesn't track with me at all. If they actually cared, they would have made Legendary a stand alone product OR an upgrade expansion back. It's not like no one has that before, or anything, and given how much fucking effort they put into the fucking DRM, the least I expect is that kind of effort as it relates to the actual game. But I shouldn't be surprised, given that Cyanide couldn't even be bothered to commit to making the DD of their game available in the long-term. The only reason I even bought the game was because it was on Steam, which they didn't even plan for the initial release. I've pirated it twice before this.

I'm normally the first to spout off about what makes sense for a game house with a business model...but this is pure shit. They're fucking their original supporting fans over 100% with this, and they're barely putting in the effort to accommodate the original release. Given the fact that I expect Legendary to be exactly the same as DE, plus new teams, the fact they're also charging full price for it is two kicks to the nuts.

If they actually add more to the base game besides new models and figs, I'll give them their dues for releasing it as a standalone game. But all signs point to this being a full-priced clone with DLC. 

Look at this way. How many editions of Star Wars did it take Lucas releasing before you started calling him an asshole? Because BB is on it's way to its third for the same....fucking....game. I'm tempted to see if people figure out how to just rip the teams straight out of the LE edition and drop them into the older versions.