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[Heron TSG]

Sauron once leapt over the river Sirion, so he could probably travel pretty quickly by jumping around. Alternatively, Zedd doesn't get a chance to fling lightning at all, because Sauron uses his invisibility to sneak up on Zedd, break his staff, and then beat him to death while Zedd is weakened. (Zedd's abilities largely stem from his usage of his staff.) If that failed, he could just keep dodging the lightning bolts until he could get close enough to smack Zedd a good one. I'm not sure how fast Sauron can run, but his long legs and incredible strength would probably let him travel pretty quickly.  Assuming that it fit in the same caliber of mount as a warhorse, he could ride on a fear-adapted warhorse, of the variety that were bred for the Nazgul.

Magic in the LOTR universe for the most part isn't attack spells, during the lord of the rings movie, not even a single elemental attack spell was show. So their is no basis for Sauron being able to do anything about lightning blasts, if your saying he can deflect stuff just because he is a magician i don't see how anyone would be able to beat him.

Looking at the powers granted by Sauron to the Nazgūl, it seems that there are indeed offensive spells in the Lord of the Rings. For example, the Witch King of Angmar used his 'Black Magicks' to break the gates of Minas Tirith. (Both by enchanting Grond and later just blowing the smaller gates apart.) In addition, they radiated an aura of fear that was known as the 'black breath'.

The Nazgūl came again . . . like vultures that expect their fill of doomed mens' flesh. Out of sight and shot they flew, and yet were ever present, and their deadly voices rent the air. More unbearable they became, not less, at each new cry. At length even the stout-hearted would fling themselves to the ground as the hidden menace passed over them, or they would stand, letting their weapons fall from nerveless hands while into their minds a blackness came, and they thought no more of war, but only of hiding and of crawling, and of death.

However, some were shown to be resistant to this effect, for example Gandalf. Is Zedd commonly known as one who is 'fearless'?

[Omegastick]

For the reasons stated I think that Sauron would win this fight.

Anyway, now that that's out of the way I have a question. In Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood Ezio has The Apple (for a period of time) and it's powers are shown to the full. Not only does it provide omniscience (not the bene ges gessir something kind where they know exactly what attacks their opponents will make, but by thinking the question the answer will be given by the apple), mind control and invulnerability to other PoEs but it also can kill anyone who gets within 5 feet if charged up first or in direct contact without any charging needed. The don't shrivel up and die or anything similar, but blood spurts out their head and they drop dead in a dramatic fashion.

This seems OP, but if a person with super strength, uber solid armour, everything magic and the ability to alter reality in his immediate surroundings is legal then surely The Apple should be too.

[lemon10]

Looking at the powers granted by Sauron to the Nazgūl, it seems that there are indeed offensive spells in the Lord of the Rings. For example, the Witch King of Angmar used his 'Black Magicks' to break the gates of Minas Tirith. (Both by enchanting Grond and later just blowing the smaller gates apart.) In addition, they radiated an aura of fear that was known as the 'black breath'.

I didn't say they didn't have attack spells, but rather that they don't have elemental attack spells, and the spells they do have are limited to the most part to force spells. Gandalf is one of the exceptions, as he is able to call down lightning.

However, some were shown to be resistant to this effect, for example Gandalf. Is Zedd commonly known as one who is 'fearless'?

I suspect, that zedd would be able to resist the fear effect being something of a evil overlord and powerful magician himself he would be able resist it, but i don't really know for sure.

Alternatively, Zedd doesn't get a chance to fling lightning at all, because Sauron uses his invisibility to sneak up on Zedd, break his staff, and then beat him to death while Zedd is weakened. (Zedd's abilities largely stem from his usage of his staff.) If that failed, he could just keep dodging the lightning bolts until he could get close enough to smack Zedd a good one.

again, when does sauron use invisibility? also, if sauron dodged, zedd could just teleport away

I'm not sure how fast Sauron can run, but his long legs and incredible strength would probably let him travel pretty quickly.  Assuming that it fit in the same caliber of mount as a warhorse, he could ride on a fear-adapted warhorse, of the variety that were bred for the Nazgul.
Sauron once leapt over the river Sirion, so he could probably travel pretty quickly by jumping around.

If he is wearing that suit of full plate that he wore in the movie, i don't think he could move very fast at all. In addition, the horse would be useless since it would die in one hit of zedd's lightning.  He could shapeshift into a faster form, but then he wouldn't have his mace or armor.

And as for jumping its pretty much a no, assuming he is wearing armor, since it would weigh him down alot.

Most spirits in Middle Earth seem to take the form of flesh, but based on the actions of a certain elf, it seems like they might be capable of shedding that form. Of course, I'm drawing from the wizards, as they have something to gain from blending in with the mortals. Sauron only wished to rule/destroy them, and considering his size alone it's obvious he isn't taking the average form. Is it possible he could simply be a spirit inside that armor?

what elf sheds his body?
and he might be able to exist as a spirit (i suspect not, becuase he needs to stay with the ring, and turning into a spirit would take him away from it), but i suspect zedd could hurt him anyways,  and he would be unable to hurt zedd without a physical form.
As for him just being a spirit inside his armor, i don't think he could be.

The ring made Bilbo/Frodo invisible because, as Gandalf described, it was imbued with Sauron's own power. This implies that Sauron had the ability to make himself invisible, which conforms to that whole bit about altering reality be sheer force of will, as well as his reputation as 'The Great Necromancer'.

I'd have to say that Sauron's power is fairly well balanced between combat at not combat. Any 10 foot tall dude with extreme strength that carries a huge iron mace into battle that can control time and space themselves is going to be pretty hard to take down.

Originally the great necromancer didn't refer to sauron, and it was retconned to be talking about him. Also the necromancer bit refers more to how he is able to extent life pretty much forever if he wants (the ringwraiths, gollum, bilbo).
Yeah it implies that he has the power to turn invisible, but it doesn't do that when he has it on, and if he does have that power, why wasn't he just invisible while fighting so that the ring couldn't get cut off?

For the reasons stated I think that Sauron would win this fight.

Anyway, now that that's out of the way I have a question. In Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood Ezio has The Apple (for a period of time) and it's powers are shown to the full. Not only does it provide omniscience (not the bene ges gessir something kind where they know exactly what attacks their opponents will make, but by thinking the question the answer will be given by the apple), mind control and invulnerability to other PoEs but it also can kill anyone who gets within 5 feet if charged up first or in direct contact without any charging needed. The don't shrivel up and die or anything similar, but blood spurts out their head and they drop dead in a dramatic fashion.

This seems OP, but if a person with super strength, uber solid armour, everything magic and the ability to alter reality in his immediate surroundings is legal then surely The Apple should be too.

I think its pretty fair to call for the disqualification of sauron, since it's pretty clear that about 95% of the competition would have no way of hurting him
 with everything that has been said about him (and like 80% couldn't even find him if he has perma invisibility).  Yeah, sauron is about as op as paul or ezio with a apple.

[CJ1145]

I didn't say they didn't have attack spells, but rather that they don't have elemental attack spells, and the spells they do have are limited to the most part to force spells. Gandalf is one of the exceptions, as he is able to call down lightning.

But if I recall correctly Sauron is of the same type of spirit as Gandalf (If someone could confirm/correct I'd appreciate it) and thus would technically have access to the same abilities. And considering he doesn't restrict himself for the sake of mortals, they'd be far more powerful spells at that.

again, when does sauron use invisibility? also, if sauron dodged, zedd could just teleport away

Sauron's ring is shown to turn the wearer invisible. Sauron never does this, but it's within reason to suspect that he could since the ring is basically run on his power.

If he is wearing that suit of full plate that he wore in the movie, i don't think he could move very fast at all. In addition, the horse would be useless since it would die in one hit of zedd's lightning.  He could shapeshift into a faster form, but then he wouldn't have his mace or armor.

If he's indeed a spirit, I think he'd move fairly fast. Armor isn't all that heavy when nobody's inside it.

And as for jumping its pretty much a no, assuming he is wearing armor, since it would weigh him down alot.

In a world where people turn invisible when wearing rings, giant eagles fly around (which should be physically impossible), demons made of flame and shadow square off against magical old men who are angels in disguise, and being courageous is literally a superpower, jumping armor is where you draw the line??

what elf sheds his body?
and he might be able to exist as a spirit (i suspect not, becuase he needs to stay with the ring, and turning into a spirit would take him away from it), but i suspect zedd could hurt him anyways,  and he would be unable to hurt zedd without a physical form.
As for him just being a spirit inside his armor, i don't think he could be.

Okay, I have several things I need to call out here. First of all, the elf in question is Glorfindel. To quote the Fellowship of the Ring, Book 1, Chapter 12, page 242, *ahem*

With his last failing senses Frodo heard cries, and it seemed to him that he saw, beyond the Riders that hesitated on the shore, a shining figure of white light; and behind it ran small shadowy forms waving flames, that flared red in the grey mist that was falling over the world.

The only other figure present was Glorfindel, so it had to be him. Elves are not normally shining lights, and if I recall Glorfindel was a higher sort of elf anyway, so it would seem that this is his "true form".

Next, if not touching the ring was harming Sauron he wouldn't even be able to wear a glove. He obviously did in the movie, and there's no reason to suggest otherwise in the books. Therefore he could easily be in spirit form under that armor.  And what kind of defense is "I don't think he could be"? What proof do you have to support this?

Originally the great necromancer didn't refer to sauron, and it was retconned to be talking about him. Also the necromancer bit refers more to how he is able to extent life pretty much forever if he wants (the ringwraiths, gollum, bilbo).
Yeah it implies that he has the power to turn invisible, but it doesn't do that when he has it on, and if he does have that power, why wasn't he just invisible while fighting so that the ring couldn't get cut off?

A retcon is still reality. The Necromancer he is. And Frodo, a mere hobbit, would have no control over what the ring did while worn. Sauron made it from his own power, he would know how to control it. Why would he ever have been invisible fighting a bunch of puny mortals? If Zedd's the great threat you make him out to be he might be a bit more pragmatic and give stealthiness a shot.

I think it's pretty fair to call for the disqualification of sauron, since it's pretty clear that about 95% of the competition would have no way of hurting him
 with everything that has been said about him (and like 80% couldn't even find him if he has perma invisibility).  Yeah, sauron is about as op as paul or ezio with a apple.

Please, Sauron could be beaten, just not by Zedd. If you crushed his armor he'd either just be a man or a spirit. Not such a great threat. He's superpowered, but so are most people here. He's tough to kill, but he's not impossible to touch like Paul is, or instantly deadly to melee combatants like Apple-Ezio.

[FuzzyZergling]

It is my personal opinion that young Paul (before the water of life) was not overpowered, but that has nothing to do with this.

I'm not completely certain who would win this fight, but I'm leaning in favor of Sauron, as Zedd can be mostly de-powered without his staff, but Sauron has no obvious, hit-me-here-and-you-win weaknesses.

[CJ1145]

Sauron has no obvious, hit-me-here-and-you-win weaknesses.

Don't tell him, he might crack.

[RAM]

I do not think that Sauron has invisibility, note that the ring actually made the bearer more visible to the ringwraiths. It may be that the invisibility was never used by Sauron, it stands to reason that this may well have been an effect of the conflict between the ring's nature and the wearer's nature, with the wearer becoming less substantial. I never paid much attention to Sauron's powers, but it would be very nice to find a direct siting of Sauron being invisible.

Also, I believe that when Sauron was accepted into the tournament, it was decided that this would be a largely mundane variant of Sauron...

[CJ1145]

I do not think that Sauron has invisibility, note that the ring actually made the bearer more visible to the ringwraiths. It may be that the invisibility was never used by Sauron, it stands to reason that this may well have been an effect of the conflict between the ring's nature and the wearer's nature, with the wearer becoming less substantial. I never paid much attention to Sauron's powers, but it would be very nice to find a direct siting of Sauron being invisible.

Also, I believe that when Sauron was accepted into the tournament, it was decided that this would be a largely mundane variant of Sauron...

The problem with accepting a mundane Sauron was of course deciding what he could and couldn't do. To deny him his powers gimps him beyond belief. I vaguely recall that it was stated that the big change was that Sauron was essentially killable here; his survival in no way depended upon his ring.

As for sources of Sauron's invisibility, there are none. It's just logical that if the ring can make a person invisible, the one who made it would know how to use that power, or at least use the ring to give himself the power. Your interpretation, while interesting, has even less basis to go on than Sauron actually turning invisible. The reason the Ringwraiths could see you with the ring on is because it was so intertwined with the nature of their master. Plus, considering it was more or less their job to track it down, you'd think they would need the ability to track it somehow.

[RAM]

Exactly, it was entwined in their nature, it turned people invisible just by being put on, in theory, if could have many great and terrible powers, I very much doubt that Gandalf was talking about simply being invisible when he discussed what would happen if he were to try to use it. The invisibility didn't need to be wielded, it just happened, it was part of the fundamental nature of the thing, the fundamental nature shared by Sauron and the ringwraiths. The thing is, that the ringwraiths and Sauron were not invisible, and there were plenty of occasions at which the ability would have been useful. What they were was slightly separate from the mundane reality. My theory is that something very significant like the ring, combined with something very minor like a hobbit, allowed them to be pulled over completely. Whereas if Sauron was wearing it then there would be too much of Sauron to exist in a completely invisible state...

While there continue to be absolutely no accounts of Sauron or the wraiths possessing any form if invisibility I don't see it as appropriate to list it as an available ability...

[Heron TSG]

But the wraiths were invisible, except to those wearing the Ring. They were only semi-visible to most because of their aura of fear and the black cloaks they wore. Here, have a source.

Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing. They had, as it seemed, unending life, yet life became unendurable to them. They could walk, if they would, unseen by all eyes in this world beneath the sun, and they could see things in worlds invisible to mortal men; but too often they beheld only the phantoms and delusions of Sauron. And one by one, sooner or later, according to their native strength and to the good or evil of their wills in the beginning, they fell under the thralldom of the ring that they bore and of the domination of the One which was Sauron's. And they became forever invisible save to him that wore the Ruling Ring, and they entered into the realm of shadows. The Nazgūl were they, the Ringwraiths, the Ulairi, the Enemy's most terrible servants; darkness went with them, and they cried with the voices of death.

Again, this is because of an effect channeled through the rings that were connected to Sauron's, which was possible due to his own power. If he can make others invisible, he can make himself invisible, I'd think.

I think its pretty fair to call for the disqualification of Sauron, since it's pretty clear that about 95% of the competition would have no way of hurting him

Untrue. The naga could see him and hit him with astounding magicks. Ozymandias could outsmart him. Kikaida could fly away and spot him with his enemy-finding-vision. Youmu could avoid the mace due to incorporeality. Paul Atreides (though disqualified) could have blocked every attack with his shield, due to him knowing Sauron's every move. Same for Duncan, minus the prescience. the GDI Disc Thrower could hit him with a huuuuge explosion. Alex Louis Armstrong could match his matter-control-powers with the added bonus of facial hair. Alien could see him with echolocation/heatvision/alien magic. Mr. Miyagi could tweak his nose. There are others, but this is already turning into a rather long list.

[FuzzyZergling]

Mr. Miyagi could tweak his nose.

This is hilarious.

Still, you are right, many characters in this competition would be able to at least put up a good fight against Sauron.
So, I don't think he's over powered.
Just my opinion, though.

[ragnarok97071]

Yeah, others stand a chance, stop trying to win by default, thanks. Sauron is powerful. but not much more than anything else. cut off a finger and he dies instantly (with a massive explosion that mostly makes it a tie, but still)

[FuzzyZergling]

Cut off a finger and he dies instantly (with a massive explosion that mostly makes it a tie, but still)

Actually, I think we're using the version before all the soul-binding, so cutting the ring off just puts a dent in his power, it doesn't kill him outright.
I could be wrong, though.

[Sean Mirrsen]

It's not a "massive explosion that makes it a tie", don't forget the guy who sliced the finger off actually survived to take the ring.

[Heron TSG]

Yeah, others stand a chance, stop trying to win by default, thanks. Sauron is powerful. but not much more than anything else. cut off a finger and he dies instantly (with a massive explosion that mostly makes it a tie, but still)

We're using Sauron in all his dark glory, but he doesn't have the immortality that putting part of his soul in the Ring gave him. If you chop off his finger, then he is slightly weaker (though not crippled), but he doesn't explode or die instantly