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[ed boy]

I'm going to make a ruling on the point in the various character's lives which we are considering.

>Paul: just before he gained prescience

>Ezio: from near the end of the game, but without any POEs.

[Omegastick]

It obviously doesn't suffocate them for reasons unknown, perhaps it works in a similar way to the Holtzman (or whatever) shield and simply stops fast moving objects, or perhaps it works more like a stab proof vest, it can't be penetrated but can be bludgeoned, it's just a shame that Ezio has metal armour.

As of Ezio becoming leader of the Assassin's does Ezio get the PoEs, he just does the same thing as Altair did and only use them when necessary (I think that this would qualify) because he had moral problems with it (I, personally, don't see how someone that kills people on a whim dozens of times a day can consider something 'morally wrong' but hey, I didn't write the script!).

Also, yes, the mind control PoEs may not work (lack of neurotransmitters, and if they did then Ezio would win the whole competition, "I am CACAME AW-... Yes master") but the reality warping (and time warping) ones certantly would.

Anyway, the point of my argument is that Ezio at the end of the series is equally overpowered and we should be using the mid-game/series versions of both characters.

[ed boy]

The overpowerness comes from the POEs, which is why they will be barred from the contest.

[lemon10]

Paul would use a bring a maula pistol
"A Maula pistol is a hand-held pistol that was used to fire poison darts. It had a range of approximately 40 metres. Maula pistols usually maintained a spring-loaded mechanism. They were popular weapons during Wars of Assassins during the days of the Faufreluches."
Im pretty sure its fast enough that ezio would be unable to dodge it

Also apparently the weirding way allows:
"During close-quarters combat, an individual adept at the Weirding Way was able to maneuver around and strike an opponent at unimaginable speeds. To the opponent (and any bystanders) the movement seemed almost like close-quarter teleportation."
EDIT: A example of this would be ezio attacking paul, then paul going behind him and stabbing him in the back, gg

Im not sure how ezio would deal with either of these

[Omegastick]

Am I the only person left defending Ezio? Oh well, hehe.

I'm surprised the maula pistol hasn't come up yet in the discussion. There's a good chance that the dart could be blocked by Ezio's armour or deflected by a swipe of his sword; but, assuming that Paul can actually hit Ezio in the hand or face then Paul would actually have to see Ezio. Lack of prescience means that Paul couldn't just know where Ezio is and Ezio could hide from Paul fairly well due to that being what he does his entire life.

We're getting multiple stories about the weirding way at the moment, you say that it's close quarters teleportation, someone earlier says that it's an attack that must be charged and the wiki says that it's merely superior fighting skills. I can't come up with an answer until I know which it is.

[Virex]

Am I the only person left defending Ezio? Oh well, hehe.

I'm surprised the maula pistol hasn't come up yet in the discussion. There's a good chance that the dart could be blocked by Ezio's armour or deflected by a swipe of his sword; but, assuming that Paul can actually hit Ezio in the hand or face then Paul would actually have to see Ezio. Lack of prescience means that Paul couldn't just know where Ezio is and Ezio could hide from Paul fairly well due to that being what he does his entire life.

We're getting multiple stories about the weirding way at the moment, you say that it's close quarters teleportation, someone earlier says that it's an attack that must be charged and the wiki says that it's merely superior fighting skills. I can't come up with an answer until I know which it is.

It's superior fighting skills. It appears like "teleportation" because it enables the user to move extremely fast (Kind of like the fights in Dragonball where the fighters arms move so fast they're just a blur).

[Omegastick]

'Kay, can he fight the whole battle like that, or just moving around his opponent? If he can fight the whole battle like that (attacks at super-speed, etc.) then he is likely to win the contest hands-down, due to no one being able to block his attacks. If, however, it's just moving around/away/towards his opponents then it shouldn't affect the battle that much, Ezio fights large groups of guards regularly and is being attacked several times at once a lot of the time.

Also, just a quick thought, wouldn't he break the sound barrier? And if so wouldn't that hurt the ears of everyone around very much??

[Pandarsenic]

A maula pistol dart might bounce off Ezio's armor but blocking it with a swipe would require either a REALLY thing blade (which he does not have) or superhuman reflexes and precision.

The Weirding Way is use of absolutely top-grade fighting skills, one that lets people with Bene Gesserit training beat Sardaukar and Fremen. Use of the Weirding Way is basically "What if every time I fought, I fought in what is literally the most perfect and exact way possible?"

[HailFire]

The Weirding Way is use of absolutely top-grade fighting skills, one that lets people with Bene Gesserit training beat Sardaukar and Fremen. Use of the Weirding Way is basically "What if every time I fought, I fought in what is literally the most perfect and exact way possible?"

So basically, not only is he virtually indestructible, he's also impossible to defeat in melee combat? 

[Iituem]

A maula pistol dart might bounce off Ezio's armor but blocking it with a swipe would require either a REALLY thing blade (which he does not have) or superhuman reflexes and precision.

The Weirding Way is use of absolutely top-grade fighting skills, one that lets people with Bene Gesserit training beat Sardaukar and Fremen. Use of the Weirding Way is basically "What if every time I fought, I fought in what is literally the most perfect and exact way possible?"

Same logic applies here to dodging a bullet.  You can't dodge a bullet unless you're Sonic the Hedgehog.  You can dodge someone's aim.  If Ezio knows he's being shot at, he can dodge Paul's aim (although Paul does still have decent combat training by the start of the book).

Weirding Way = Top class fighting and assassination skills.
Master Assassin = Top class fighting and assassination skills.

Shall we declare that particular point even, then?

Paul comes in with a Holtzmann shield - can't be hit by fast-moving objects, lasts 15 minutes+ before suffocation (based on the Idaho analysis above).  Full body coverage, 'vulnerable' to energy weapons (the shield just blows up, and takes everyone with it - suicide attack).
Ezio comes in with Altair's armour - can be hit by fast-moving objects, not total coverage, but essentially made out of applied phlebotinum (unknown light, strong alloy) and can stop most steel weaponry.  Effect of energy attacks unknown, but probably only as effective as normal breastplates (not terribly).

I think we're playing up the effects of the Holtzmann shield a bit.  Paul has a advantage in terms of full body coverage, but if Ezio has better experience using his armour he may be able to compensate.  Short term, Altair's armour will block most melee attacks (with human strength) about as effectively as the Holtzmann shield.  Over a longer period, denting and armour damage will become a problem, but at the same time Paul's going to start getting worn out by air shortages in the shield.  This could end up being a question of stamina.


If either of them can get the drop on the other, they will possibly win.  Paul can shoot Ezio with a poisoned dart to win (Ezio carries no antidoes), or Ezio can simply hidden-blade kill Paul if he can get close enough (or shoot him with the hidden flintlock before he puts the shield up/hit him with a throwing knife, depending on distance and preference).

So I suppose the question I want to ask is - who has the superior stealth training here?

[Virex]

Question's not that easy. Ezio certainly has superior stealth training. Paul was never really trained in stealth combat beyond normal tactics. He certainly is not a real assassin (most often the word assassin in Dune appears as assassins war, a war where both sides strive to avoid civilian casualties). On the flip side, Paul's a Mentat. Even without precognition he can predict Ezio's moves to some extent.

[Pandarsenic]

The shield can stay on pretty much forever, in theory. As for the 15 minute limit?

I believe one of the skills from Bene Gesserit training is, if someone can let me know whether this is accurate, being able to hold your breath for ridiculous amounts of time.

Re the armor, Ezio's armor may be light but a Holtzmann shield is weightless. And doesn't get weaker over time or abuse. If endurance is a question, Paul's prana/bindu control probably gives him the win there, too - even if he's getting tired, he can fight like he's not.

And the Weirding Way is, I would argue, much more effective than Master Assassin skills. The Weirding Way is adapted for combat as fought by someone who can control their body perfectly. There's no wasted motion, no mistakes, just perfect, almost mechanical efficiency. The only people who can even stand up to someone versed in the Weirding Way are:
1) Sardaukar, who grow up on a World of Death where Everything Is Trying To Kill You. They utterly fail to kill Paul.
2) Fremen, who grow up on a World of Death where Everything Is Trying To Kill You and there's no water. I don't recall more than one fighting Paul (Jamis), but Paul solidly defeats him.
3) Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen, who "alters the rules of engagement" by bringing a poison into their one-on-one duel when he was not supposed to be allowed to. Paul beats him anyway.

[RAM]

How much time does Ezio typically spend researching a target, and do the combatants know the identity of their opponent as they enter the battlefield?

[Diablous]

How much time does Ezio typically spend researching a target, and do the combatants know the identity of their opponent as they enter the battlefield?

The combatants are given 3 days to prepare, and they know who has made it to their round. Ezio won't know who he's fighting until he sees them on the island.

[RAM]

But does Ezio find out his target's habits, their tastes, where they shop, how they think, who they trust...

Or does Ezio just go in and kill them with awesome assassin fighting without needing to know anything about them?