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Author Topic: Fight to the death the second: Round two  (Read 83889 times)

Pandarsenic

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #615 on: October 13, 2010, 05:32:39 am »

Strelok would win this in only a few seconds with high-level gear. Give him the Tunder 5.45 and a Combat Chaser (switching weapons isn't perfectly fast but he can do it while moving in a second or two), let him wear the SEVA suit. He's basically guaranteed to win, and that's without anti-Rupture artifacts preventing Tidus' sword from harming him. I would lump "Magic" under "Anomalies" since they basically function the same way (reality fizzling out a bit). Strelok gives Tidus the More Pewpew Less QQ treatment, and that's Gee Gee. If you want to give him optimized equipment for the situation, a full load of the highest-ranked anti-rupture artifacts while he's wearing the Exoskeleton will make him nearly invincible. Ever felt like knife-fighting a Pseudogiant? Now you can!
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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #616 on: October 13, 2010, 04:29:13 pm »

Okay, I saw a lot of things here that, while seemingly an ironclad defense, are actually kinda stupid. Let's see if I have the time and patience to get them all.

First off, I see people talking that quite obviously have no idea what Tidus fights with, and possibly who he is. A shield he does not have, and all the better because you guys talk about bullets like they're heat-seeking insta-death that puncture magical fields and solid steel as if it was butter. He's faster that way, and can dodge. And chains? What chains? Tidus isn't my my English teacher re-living his high school days.


Yeah yeah, I hate his ugly mug too. But look closely. How many chains does he have: TWO. That damn necklace, and the easily removed chain off his belt. The rest is just a vest, some shorts, what vaguely amounts to what Japanese people think running shoes are, and a glowing sword. Fucker travels light, Strelok's not going to just pick him up approaching like he's some lumbering brute.

Another thing is, I thought we weren't told who we were fighting? How in the hell would Strelok just happen to be carrying the perfect gun to kill Tidus? He may have some jack of all trades gun that does a damn good job of it, but if he's loading out specifically to take on that whiny bastard, then somebody needs to call in the referee.

You guys need to weight the checks and balances of all this sort of thing. Yeah, if Strelok wears his exoskeleton he's going to be nearly invulnerable against Tidus, but if he goes up against somebody like Armstrong he's as good as dead. So why on earth would he wear that cumbersome thing at all?

A shotgun and assault rifle would be good choices for Strelok to take into combat, but let's be realistic. Gameplay aside, story dictates that Strelok is, in fact, human. As opposed to the min-maxing that most of us would choose, Strelok would likely be more practical, carrying two guns at most, maybe a sidearm, and leave the rest for food and ammunition. Maybe a grenade or two. He's most certainly not the Terminator, so why are we treating him like the perfect killer?

Another thing: Anomaly or not, puncture-resisting artifacts don't mean anything if Tidus's sword can hurt his world's Satan Equivalent.

You guys say that Tidus fighting Strelok would be like a boss fight. I say that's not true. I say it's closer to Strelok going up against a faster-than-normal, hyperintelligent bloodsucker that wields a magic sword specifically designed to kill heavy-armored folk.
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Phantom

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #617 on: October 13, 2010, 05:21:27 pm »

So Tidus is a PC Wallpaper? Interesting...
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Diablous

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #618 on: October 13, 2010, 05:42:39 pm »

For those who, like me, the pic CJ posted didn't work, this should:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Or you could check the FF wiki. There is a link to his article right in ed boy's post at the start of the fight.
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Jack A T

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #619 on: October 13, 2010, 05:46:41 pm »

Okay, I saw a lot of things here that, while seemingly an ironclad defense, are actually kinda stupid. Let's see if I have the time and patience to get them all.

First off, I see people talking that quite obviously have no idea what Tidus fights with, and possibly who he is. A shield he does not have, and all the better because you guys talk about bullets like they're heat-seeking insta-death that puncture magical fields and solid steel as if it was butter. He's faster that way, and can dodge. And chains? What chains? Tidus isn't my my English teacher re-living his high school days.

Tidus's wiki article's images of him show light chains on his body, which, while relatively quiet for chains, are still going to probably mess with stealth.  (Yeah, I exaggerated the chains, but they're the least important part of his sheer lack of stealthiness) (seriously, giant sword?)

In addition...

Quote from: The wiki article
Tidus is the classical Warrior character of the party and uses basic Swords and Shields during battle.

Sure, Strelok's bullets aren't heat-seeking, but they're still damn fast and he's an excellent shot.

Strelok will probably carry his normal zone guns: assault/sniper rifle, possible shotgun, handgun.  The shotgun is not as important, with Strelok using his knife.

Strelok wouldn't wear an exoskeleton, as they kind of suck and he's been canonically shown to wear a SEVA suit near the endgame.  SEVA suits are almost as good at stopping bullets and fists, faster, and great against anomalies/unusual attacks: everything he'd want for fights like these.

And really big glowing swords?  They're NOT stealthy.  Ever.  Nor are the shields his wiki article says he uses.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 05:48:49 pm by Jack A T »
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ed boy

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #620 on: October 13, 2010, 06:35:34 pm »

I WANT Strelok to win. Though it pains me to say it, he is NOT an uber-powerful, hyper-accurate demigod. He's just a fast, strong human with experience surviving in the Zone.

Tidus, on the other hand, is a speedy lightning bruiser with a sword that can slice through the skin of gods the devil without much trouble, let alone the armor of a regular human.
This does beg the question: what species are the various final fantasy characters? In the games I have played, Most, if not all, of the characters appear to be human, but it is never explicitly said. You speak of Tidus as if he is completely superior to humanity, yet as far as I can tell, he is not far from human, if at all.

And with one mod, he also gets to deal with Zombies (which make a LOT of noise), mutated cats, and other assorted nasties that got removed from SoC, not to mention the fact that with the SAME mod he has to weather multiple emissions.
We're not dealing with mods here, although that does sound awesome.
Well, it's the Oblivion Lost mod, which returns things to SoC that were cut, so technically OL is more feature-complete than SoC and therefore more viable as a rubric to measure Strelok with.
It's the version that was released, that the version that was originally intended to be released, that we are considering.

I just wanted to say something, have people completely forgotten Tidus' ability to use a Blitzball as a deadly weapon? It is one of his Limits in FF10. So he actually can have a form of medium ranged weapon. I also do believe he'd be carrying around Mega Potions, and some other equipment, so he would be capable of recovering.
I was not aware of this attack. How big is a blitzball? Using it in a densely vegetated area might prove to be more dangerous to tidus, as if it is large it would not be able to go far before rebounding. As for the other FF items, I know how the FF item system allows characters instant access to countless items, and thus I would want to limit such things.

[Strelok] survived the horrors of the X-Labs by himself, survived an exploding truck hit by pure electricity, most likely get shot multiple times, survive a tripmine exploding right from under him (Although with medical help), and other fecking horrors.
As I understand it, he was only able to survive such things because of immediate medical attention.

I haven't played that particular FF game, but if I recall correctly, it's not uncommon for highly trained individuals to be "bosses" in FF-verse, of the kind that it takes the entire party significant efforts to defeat. In this case, Tidus would be alone against such a boss, and one without a pattern of attacks. Even if you count Strelok as a mediocre boss (he's not an Eldritch Abomination, even if he defeats things that could qualify as such on a daily basis), Tidus is in for a very hard fight, one he might not have the resources to last through.
I would discourage that sort of thinking. If the final fantasy battle mechanics were the best for this competition, we would stat up all of the contestants, and use the FF battle system to determine the winner. One can easily place too much emphasis on how well each contestant performs in their own battle system. The closer to real life the battle system is the more we can trust it. FF has a very unrealistic battle system, so I'm avoiding translating bits of it into this competition, preferring non-battle events instead. Stalker has a more realistic (though some parts are still extremely unrealistic) battle system, so his accomplishments are easier to translate into this competition (though only some of them).

Strelok would win this in only a few seconds with high-level gear. Give him the Tunder 5.45 and a Combat Chaser (switching weapons isn't perfectly fast but he can do it while moving in a second or two), let him wear the SEVA suit. He's basically guaranteed to win, and that's without anti-Rupture artifacts preventing Tidus' sword from harming him. I would lump "Magic" under "Anomalies" since they basically function the same way (reality fizzling out a bit). Strelok gives Tidus the More Pewpew Less QQ treatment, and that's Gee Gee. If you want to give him optimized equipment for the situation, a full load of the highest-ranked anti-rupture artifacts while he's wearing the Exoskeleton will make him nearly invincible. Ever felt like knife-fighting a Pseudogiant? Now you can!
Once again: I will not accept that, out of all the contestants, Strelok somehow chooses Tidus as the one to optimise his equipment for.

So, let's try to hash out what equipment each character would have. My first impressions would be this:

Strelok:
wearing either a SEVA suit or an exoskeleton. Probably the SEVA suit, as it offers protection from lots of unusual forms of attack.
As for weapons, I imagine that he would have a rifle (for medium to long distances), a shotgum for close distances, possibly a sidearm and probably a knife. A grenade or two would also be likely. As for artifacts, I'm not going to accept any arguments that he would load up on artifacts that would specifically defend against Tidus. I imagine that he would have health and endurance boosters instead.

Tidus:
His main weapon would be the caladbolg, as it is the most powerful. However, since its effectiveness is tied to his health, he would almost certainly bring a backup weapon. This backup weapon would not neccessarily be the most powerful one - they all have special abilities, and I would need someone more well-versed with the game to suggest which one he would go for. The shields, too, have no clear superior example.
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Doret

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #621 on: October 13, 2010, 07:36:41 pm »

I'm pretty sure Tidus would bring the Sword Wakka gave him, as it carries sentimental value, it is the second sword you get, and stronger than the weakest which I believe is the Longsword Auron gives him.. A blitzball is roughly the size of a basketball, and it has bumps around it for grips. It wouldn't be much of a problem for Tidus considering he can use the Jecht Shot Mk III out of water. His accuracy with it is great, and it usually curves after he shoots it. With one of his limits, upon hitting the ground the ball would explode. He also has a ton of other epic limits, like Spiral cut and those other goodies. Tidus is not human, he is from Zanarkand and has a natural resistance to fire when injured.
If we are using RPG Tidus over that Final Fantasy Disgaea(Disdaea?) game then Tidus will have more attacks, like Delay attck thingy. Because he has all those special attacks, including a defense breaker(Buster) one which lowers an enemies defense. His time magic probably would be helpful, but in the RPG I never really used it so I can't say to what extent it is capable of.
Forgot about his shields there, Tidus does use shields, but they are small bucklers he wears around his wrist, they are pretty small and offer little protection. None of the FF10 characters have full blown shields. And his sword, it is not like Angeal's/Zack's/Cloud's/Auron's It's a pretty regular sized sword, since he is taller than the blade. I don't know about the size of Caladbolg, but the sword he got from Wakka is a pretty regular sized longsword, with a hook. The giant sword wielder of his party is Auron.
I hope this ehlped some, or is it even more confusing? If I got anything wrong I'll fix it, as I am writing from memory and lack my seeing tools.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 07:42:06 pm by Doret »
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CJ1145

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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #622 on: October 13, 2010, 07:44:39 pm »

I WANT Strelok to win. Though it pains me to say it, he is NOT an uber-powerful, hyper-accurate demigod. He's just a fast, strong human with experience surviving in the Zone.

Tidus, on the other hand, is a speedy lightning bruiser with a sword that can slice through the skin of gods the devil without much trouble, let alone the armor of a regular human.
This does beg the question: what species are the various final fantasy characters? In the games I have played, Most, if not all, of the characters appear to be human, but it is never explicitly said. You speak of Tidus as if he is completely superior to humanity, yet as far as I can tell, he is not far from human, if at all.

As was explained by Doret's post, Tidus is not exactly human. And even if he was, in Final Fantasy humans aren't quite the same as in our universe. He is far faster.

This is about as close as you're getting to an accurate showing of Tidus' real time skills.
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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #623 on: October 13, 2010, 08:27:49 pm »

Just for clarification, if Strelok actually shot and hit Tidus with a powerful assault or sniper rifle, would the bullets actually pierce and injure him?
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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #624 on: October 13, 2010, 08:35:23 pm »

Just for clarification, if Strelok actually shot and hit Tidus with a powerful assault or sniper rifle, would the bullets actually pierce and injure him?

Of course they'd injure him. Kill him if there was a magical heart, brain, etc. shot. The question is, how much would they injure him, and is Tidus fast enough to avoid the shots altogether?
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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #625 on: October 13, 2010, 08:49:36 pm »

Oh, okay. I wasn't sure since he seems to be a melee fighter who doesn't wear armour (!?) so some sort of innate resilience would have made sense. So the issue becomes, does Tidus require functioning nervous and circulatory systems?
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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #626 on: October 13, 2010, 09:20:42 pm »

Anyone can avoid bullets, it just takes a bit of skill and a lot of luck. There are documented stories of people running across battlefields unhurt. While Strelok isn't exactly a bad shot, and relying upon luck is frowned upon, I doubt that he would hit a hasted Tidus running across uneven terrain with the first shot. How long can Tidus maintain haste?
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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #627 on: October 13, 2010, 11:08:32 pm »

I think the entire battle, or around 10-20 Turns in a battle. I'm not completely sure but it is something like this, as negative effects do not vanish until they are acted upon, I think the same would go for positive effects.
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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #628 on: October 13, 2010, 11:20:11 pm »

Strelok is an expert at shooting and killing things that try to close to melee, though. Snorks flip out like ninjas and try get between cover and flank, as do bloodsuckers (which are invisible), plus agile little bastards like the packs mutant wolves, boars and rats. And then you have the pseudogiants and chimeras, which are dangerous to armoured vehicles. Given that Strelok has fought his way across the Zone several times and is not dead, it is a safe bet that he knows how to hit a target that isn't politely standing still.
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Re: Fight to the death the second: Round one: Strelok VS Tidus
« Reply #629 on: October 13, 2010, 11:28:32 pm »

Not to mention being able to do so while under mind-warping effects of nasties such as Controllers.
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