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[Heron TSG]

And 'fast as lightning' is a hyperbole.

And throwing people into the sun is a metaphor.

[CJ1145]

And 'fast as lightning' is a hyperbole.

And throwing people into the sun is a metaphor.

... That's just silly.

Mr. Miyagi is one of the greatest martial artists of all time. There, happy? Does that satisfy you? I hope so, because even then he's got nothing on a man who calls down lightning with a strum of his guitar. That is NOT a hyperbole, OR a metaphor. He literally strums his guitar, and then lightning strikes his target. He does that once, and Miyagi is either dead or unconscious.

If you'd prefer melee combat, Eddie Riggs...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Is a demon. A badass demon who is the son of the Empress of All Demons, Succoria. He wields a battleaxe bigger than Miyagi's entire body, and he can fly. His voice is powerful enough to move a man's head from his body (after it was detached, but remained in place, he shouted "DECAPITATIOOOOOOOON" and the head was knocked off.

I love Mr. Miyagi, but he cannot win this. I'm not saying that as a desperate man who has lost all hope, as in "There's no way he can win this!" I am saying this as a man who observes the matchup, and realizes that the two fighters are in entirely different leagues.

There is no way he can win this.

[ed boy]

Are there any limitations on his lightning summoning or flying? It would be a bit overpowered if "Fly up high and nuke the entire island with arbitrarily large amounts of lightning" is an option for him.

[mainiac]

Saying The Punisher could take down Duncan with explosives is just plain wrong.  It's said in the books that the Harkonen shelled the Atreides regiments with artillery and no casualties from the firepower itself are mentioned, and the conversations of the battle say that explosives are useless against shielded opponents and were only used to collapse the caves.  It's not hard to understand why, heat in an explosion is conducted by rapidly moving molecules, which would be above the shields threshhold as would any shrapnel.

Saying that he could take Duncan down before he gets his shield up is just plain egregious.  Duncan has three days warning.  It takes him less then a second to raise his shield.  He is a paranoid, paranoid fighter who teaches that every fight is dangerous, no matter how skillful you are.  Why would he have his shield down at any point in the fight?

[Heron TSG]

Mr. Miyagi is no mere human, he's as fast as lightning. The movie said so. If the movie was hyperbole, the entirety of Brutal Legend is hyperbole. Miyagi doesn't fight much, and that's why he's never shown moving at the speed of electricity. That doesn't mean he can't, because it was stated that he can.

If you can move at the speed of lightning, you can dodge lightning. Especially if it has to be aimed.

[ed boy]

Saying The Punisher could take down Duncan with explosives is just plain wrong.  It's said in the books that the Harkonen shelled the Atreides regiments with artillery and no casualties from the firepower itself are mentioned, and the conversations of the battle say that explosives are useless against shielded opponents and were only used to collapse the caves.  It's not hard to understand why, heat in an explosion is conducted by rapidly moving molecules, which would be above the shields threshhold as would any shrapnel.

Saying that he could take Duncan down before he gets his shield up is just plain egregious.  Duncan has three days warning.  It takes him less then a second to raise his shield.  He is a paranoid, paranoid fighter who teaches that every fight is dangerous, no matter how skillful you are.  Why would he have his shield down at any point in the fight?

I was led to believe that Duncan might have his shield down when he believes there is no imminent thread by this post:

from what I've seen of Duncan's fighting style, he prefers to get in close and THEN use his shield

If one were to take the speed of the individual molecules of air when it comes to the shield, then even regular temperature air molecules would be far above the shield's threshhold limit (around 500 metres per second), and duncan would simply suffocate. Similarly, sound would be unable to travel through the shield, so duncan would be effectively deaf when he has the shield up.

Since the logical extrapolation seen above would contradict the numerous sources already existing, then I adapted my perception of the shields. Instead of treating the shields as continuous and impermeable, I took the shields to instead have a large number of very tiny holes. These holes would allow extremely small objects (such as air molecules) through (thus allowing duncan to breathe). Larger objects, such as bullets, would be too large to fit through these holes.

In my research, I also discovered that the shields can have different settings, and shields used on a larger scale (for example around buildings) will have shields with different settings, although this often necessitates the usage of devices to supply oxygen. This leads me to beleive that the shields used in such situations, as well as having a lower threshhold speed, will also have a much lower permeability. Heat would travel far less through such shields than personal shields, plus there would be space between the shield and the people inside which would allow for further dissapation of heat, shockwaves, and other such effects.

However, I was not aware of the previous case of explosives (I assume the artillery used explosive projectiles) proving useless against shields. I would have to know more about this instance. If the people who were being attacked were using that same sort of shield as duncan would be using (that is, a personal shield, with the same settings as duncan's, and not one that covers multiple people/a large area), then I will redo the duncan/punisher match after this one.

Mr. Miyagi is no mere human, he's as fast as lightning. The movie said so. If the movie was hyperbole, the entirety of Brutal Legend is hyperbole. Miyagi doesn't fight much, and that's why he's never shown moving at the speed of electricity. That doesn't mean he can't, because it was stated that he can.

If you can move at the speed of lightning, you can dodge lightning. Especially if it has to be aimed.

Nope. In order to dodge it, you need to have good enough senses to see it coming, good enough reflexes to avoid it, and a body capable of withstanding such extreme acceleration (going from stationary to 90,000 miles per second in a tiny fraction of a second).

[Heron TSG]

Nope. In order to dodge it, you need to have good enough senses to see it coming, good enough reflexes to avoid it, and a body capable of withstanding such extreme acceleration (going from stationary to 90,000 miles per second in a tiny fraction of a second).

Senses to see it coming - Eddy has to 'call it down', and therefore there is a delay.

Reflexes - He's as fast as lightning.

Extreme Acceleration - I'd assume that physics don't work as normal, otherwise, for example, Eddy couldn't blow the head off of someone by yelling at them. The head would be crushed before it separated.

[CJ1145]

Are there any limitations on his lightning summoning or flying? It would be a bit overpowered if "Fly up high and nuke the entire island with arbitrarily large amounts of lightning" is an option for him.

The lightning focuses on specifically one person, and flying tends not to go above twenty feet. Even then it's not used very often.

Nope. In order to dodge it, you need to have good enough senses to see it coming, good enough reflexes to avoid it, and a body capable of withstanding such extreme acceleration (going from stationary to 90,000 miles per second in a tiny fraction of a second).

Senses to see it coming - Eddy has to 'call it down', and therefore there is a delay.

Reflexes - He's as fast as lightning.

Extreme Acceleration - I'd assume that physics don't work as normal, otherwise, for example, Eddy couldn't blow the head off of someone by yelling at them. The head would be crushed before it separated.

Dude. The Karate Kid was meant to take place in the real world. Mr. Miyagi is not and can not be as fast as lightning.

As for the blowing the head off, you kind of completely ignored the context.

Here's the situation: Eddie chops a guy with his axe in the head. The axe slices clean through, but the detached part doesn't fall off. So, he shouts, and knocks it clean off.

[Heron TSG]

Dude. The Karate Kid was meant to take place in the real world. Mr. Miyagi is not and can not be as fast as lightning.

Okay, prove to me that Mr. Miyagi got the real medal of honor in the European Theater. It's not exactly the real world. Besides, someone made a statement that he was as fast as lightning, he didn't say 'I think he's as fast as lightning.'

[mainiac]

A shield would still be able to transmit sound just fine even when it keeps out fast air molecules.  Sound isn't transmitted by the air molecules themselves, but by the high and low pressure zones that a sound wave transmits.  If you account for interactions by fast moving air molecules on both sides of the shield (which would still feel each others charges, IIRC), that means that sound would be able to move across a shield even if the boundary was impermeable.  It's not all that alien a concept.  When you stand in front of a door and knock on it, the sound is transmitted across the barrier despite the fact that there is no transfer of mass to go with the sound.  It's done through a series of electro-static repulsions from adjoining molecules passing the wave along.

I might be wrong about Duncan's shield habits, as I'm basing my opinions on the first book (couldn't stomach the sequels) where he seemed to me to be pretty prudent about keeping his shield on in battle.  I'd be surprised if he picked style over survival, but I can defer to someone with a greater familiarity on this point.

[Sean Mirrsen]

The "pressure zones" of sound waves are created by air molecules pushing up against each other, at fairly large velocities. The shield, being an energy structure, does not transmit vibrations as a door does, so even if sound did get through a shield, it would be muffled, perhaps significantly. So it's a double-edged sword (or shield, hehe) in this situation - on one hand, keeping the shield up makes you a difficult target, but then it also leaves you vulnerable to surprise attacks by a crafty enemy; on the other, keeping it down is liable to get you shot.

If research time is given, I think Duncan would prefer to keep the shield up, sacrificing alertness for defence, but Punisher is crafty enough to think of a way to bypass the thing, or turn it to his advantage. Smoke or gas grenade to confuse and blind, then run up, squeeze an active grenade through the shield and leg it. For example.

[RAM]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The shield behaves as it does in the books, which I have not read, but if breathing and atmospheric conditions described are anything to go on, it would massively reduce the pace at which heat would transmit through the shield. Although I imagine that being in the middle of a sustained fire would still be pretty fatal... Although the practical effects of explosives are the blast wave, which is presumably nullified or else artillery would still be in use, and shrapnel, which is definitely nullified. I believe that even incendiary explosives rely on a form of incendiary shrapnel, and will not produce much in the way of radiant heat. You are really looking for something like a flame-thrower, or a large area of napalm, or starting a forest fire...

Does the lightning ever instantly kill a healthy opponent? Is it ever used upon a human? Are demons particularly resistant to it? Is it a spell, originating from the roadie? Or a request for some dramatically appropriate weather that the local world just goes along with. I believe that a specific ability to converse with the elements would be allowed, but the local elements would start off with a desire to see a fair fight, and would need much persuasion. And I very much doubt that the island is subject to dramatically appropriate weather. So I can only assume that this is very weak lightning, as full strength lightning should be about as lethal to a demon as it is to a human(completely lethal unless you are lucky about where you get hit, and there is pretty much no chance of fighting afterwards). But simply put, I don't think that Miyagi can win a direct fight, but I don't think that the roadie has the mind to resist a bit of random music. If Miyagi is serious about being lethal, I think that he could get a stealth kill. Otherwise, supernatural forces overpower a mundane martial artist...

[ed boy]

Spoiler: shield discussion (click to show/hide)

You are really looking for something like a flame-thrower, or a large area of napalm, or starting a forest fire...

... or you're using one of the extremely fiery explosives that the punisher is using.

And there are two options for the shield - either it is permeable or it is not. If it is not permeable, then sound wave vibrations will be transferred from the air molecules to the shield, the shield will start vibrating, and this will be transferred to the air molecules on the other side of the shield. this will be a very inefficient process, so sound will be greatly reduced. Since heat is also kinetic energy of molecules, the kinetic energy would have to be transferred through the shield, once again a very slow and inefficient process. However, these are all minor points: the major point is that if the shield is not permeable, air molecules will not be able to pass through, and he will suffocate if he keeps it up continuously.

If the shield is permable, then the question is how permeable it is. As the permeability increases, the airflow between the inside and the outside increases, thus allowing duncan a greater air intake. However, it would also allow greater transfer of soundwaves, shockwaves and heat. With the larger shields, the flow of air would not be important, so the permeability can be turned down very low. However, with duncan's shield, he's going to need a very large airflow to allow for exertion in combat, and this would make him susceptible to shockwaves and heat.

So far what what I've seen, Eddie is going to be a lot less effective in the forests than the majority of contestants. I imagine that he would therefore stay out of the forested areas, whereas mr.mayagi would try to get as close as possible while remaining under cover, then sprint ahead and try to finish Eddie before he can summon lightning. The question is therefore: how long does it take Eddie to summon lightning?

[RAM]

Spoiler: shield discussion (click to show/hide)

I thought that technology basically functions as it does in its home world and wasn't subject to real-world physics. In its home world I believe that the shields prevent death from blast-waves, unless the explosives of that world do not produce such effects...
As for the heat issue, it isn't the heat of the explosion so much as the ambient heat. The shield is permeable, but it induces a great delay in any penetration, and requires sustained force. If the shield is moved, then they can continue to breath, if they stood still then they would probably suffocate. The heat from an explosive would dissipate before a significant amount of it interacted with the shield-space, while a sustained heat would force them to stop moving, and may even penetrate a stationary shield if there was force behind it...
But I have never read dune...

I am not familiar with Eddie, so I can't help with that...

[CJ1145]

So far what what I've seen, Eddie is going to be a lot less effective in the forests than the majority of contestants. I imagine that he would therefore stay out of the forested areas, whereas mr.mayagi would try to get as close as possible while remaining under cover, then sprint ahead and try to finish Eddie before he can summon lightning. The question is therefore: how long does it take Eddie to summon lightning?

About one second. The guy is a master at playing guitar, and playing the guitar makes lightning. Even then, Eddie's been run through with lances and come out okay; there is extremely little an old man could do to kill him.

Okay, prove to me that Mr. Miyagi got the real medal of honor in the European Theater.

How the hell is that relevant? Just because the writer didn't do his research doesn't mean that it's supposed to be a fantasy world where the laws of reality don't apply.

Besides, someone made a statement that he was as fast as lightning, he didn't say 'I think he's as fast as lightning.'

The. Fuck. Be. This.

Seriously man, is this your first encounter with an analogy? We've talked multiple times before, I know for a fact I've used analogies. Listen, I'll answer this with yet another analogy.

Imagine we're talking about a boxer. Like, one of the best boxers in the world. If someone were to say "That man's got dynamite in his punches", would you literally believe that this boxer straps sticks of TNT to his fist, and then punches you with them? That is what your argument sounds like to me.