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Author Topic: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 7 - Game over! All Hail Criptfeind!  (Read 52325 times)

Toaster

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #420 on: September 24, 2010, 10:23:09 pm »

Cript:  If you say Soli is scum, why didn't you vote him?  Further, why didn't you vote anyone?  The WIFOM accusations are only applying to his post-vote in comments, so that's not a valid reason as to why he's in the ring in the first place.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #421 on: September 24, 2010, 10:24:14 pm »

Eh?  I've been jumped for buddying every other time I've mentioned that I think someone is town.  I thought it was accepted strategy.  Why should you be exempt?

I happen to think that everyone is exempt (except for a few situational things blah blah blah).  I also find it interesting that you said "except at MyLo," which implies that there would be some logical structure behind your statements--rather than just "people jump on me when I do it, so I stopped."
I do too, which is why I just mentioned it, instead of turning it into an attack.  I said "Except at MyLo" because MyLo and LyLo are the first times in a typical game when it becomes important to find proof that people are town.
This was your defense, Lonewolf? Saying someone is town is buddying but everyone is exempt, which was why you mentioned it but didn't do anything with it? This doesn't begin to answer what you were trying to accomplish and why.


A point for your consideration, whilst I catch up:

Assume I'm Cabal. Somehow, I use my winning smile and boyish charms to ensorcel members of the Tower: I convince Vector to jump to my defense on Day 1 and look like she's buddying me. After that, Jim and I butt heads for ~50 posts, and in the end I somehow manage to convince the Tower of my virtue, and earn enough Assists to beat Org.

Then, after winning the match and just as I cause Jim to doubt his accusations of me, I decide to burn that potential bridge and Cabal-kill him. Why not? :o

Day 2 starts, and a case starts to build on Vector, primarily for her behavior in assisting me the day before. I decide to risk the small measure of security I'd earned and return the favor she inadvertently performed for me midway through Duel 1, in being the first to turn the Assist Votes around. I relate to everyone how her helping me doesn't make much sense for a Scum ploy, and therefore that she's likely to be Tower. This seems to satisfy the leaders of the case against her, and though it makes me look bad I might have earned a buddy.

Then, after taking that minor risk and investing energy into gaining a new buddy, I decide to Cabal-kill her too, again for the hell of it. Why not? :o

If it isn't plain enough, allow me to clarify. If I wanted Vector dead, I'd have jumped on the case against her and pushed her into the ring D2, rather than trying to turn the vote around, and in the process making myself look bad. Being the target of her actions, I'd have had a reasonable chunk of argumentative clout to bring to bear. That way, I would have saved my Nightkill for someone else.
I'm suspicious, but the basic premise seems correct...


Besides helping you, Vector and Jim had something else in common: they were active.  Not something in overabundance right about now.
...except for the WIFOM and this. Sometimes there's just no one scum particularly wants to kill, and knocking off an active player who'd fingered you before and a player who's buddying had gotten you in trouble before might be very solid moves.


I was not intending on proposing a scenario that reeked of poor judgement and supidity, only to have you buy into it. I'm frankly a bit surprised.

I'd agree that Scum are indeed near to controlling the majority. As such, I'd assume that if I were Scum, I'd have people leaping to my defense now to secure the Cabal a win. However, I don't see that. Instead, I see Janus and Jokerman nodding in agreement that I should die instead of Leafsnail. Do you two not find this curious?
So you point out that if you were Cabal your buddies would openly defend you, then point out how suspicious it looks that both Janus and Jokerman are working against you.

HMMMMMM. PERHAPS CABAL WOULD LIKE TO BE A LITTLE MORE SUBTLE SO THEY DON'T GET CAUGHT IMMEDIATELY?


I remembered my opponent was "That L-Guy". I haven't finished catching up through today, much less started reading into my arena opponent, and whether or not they may be Scum... such that their cohorts would leap on their Opponent. :3

With 3-4 Cabal, I wouldn't deny that you two could indeed be Scum together, since your opinions pretty much fall in line with one another. It's within reason to think that That L-Guy is too, hence the vehemency here. To ensure the death of a Townie today is to more or less secure a Cabal victory.
So immediately after saying "Come on guys, my cabalbuddies would have my back!" you continue suggesting that Leafsnail and his proponents are scum working together.

I WONDER IF FORESEEING THIS WOULD MAKE THEM BE MORE SUBTLE ABOUT IT.


A clearly delineated train of logic that starts with the phrase "Assume I'm Cabal."  Seriously.  It doesn't get more WIFOM than that.

What the heck are you even seeing, Lonewolf? I'm pointing out the logical fallacy in the assumption that I'm Scum. I would have had to knowingly sabotage myself not once but twice, with nothing to gain from it at all. I would have stuck my neck out for nothing, and killed off the people who I had convinced (even if only partially) that I was town. How does that even remotely make sense?

If you think I'd do it for WIFOM, you're misguided. It's much easier to sit back and join the rabble than it is to present an original opinion, and it's safer.
And back on your soapbox about how you took risks and played by nobody's rules to... do what, again? Something about defending Vector made you look scummy?
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Solifuge

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #422 on: September 25, 2010, 01:46:01 am »

Seriously, it's common sense. Cabal wins this match, and kills someone today and they've won. This is the equivalent of LYLO. Therefor, if Cabal had someone in the ring, they could stack 3 assists on their darling combatant with a half-assed argument based on gut instinct, and enough space between to avoid immediate suspicion, and boom. Game set match.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #423 on: September 25, 2010, 01:41:09 pm »

So everyone who votes against you is scum because you are town?

Cript:  If you say Soli is scum, why didn't you vote him?  Further, why didn't you vote anyone?  The WIFOM accusations are only applying to his post-vote in comments, so that's not a valid reason as to why he's in the ring in the first place.

Well. I did not know who to vote for, but since my options have been narrowed so very far, for right now I only have to look and see who looks more like scum to me. Solly is it.
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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #424 on: September 25, 2010, 02:53:24 pm »

Why?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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Jokerman-EXE

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #425 on: September 25, 2010, 03:11:54 pm »

Solifuge, you'll notice that I haven't assisted yet.

That's because despite your (perceived faulty) argument, I'm not really sure that you're scum. In fact, I almost want to believe that you aren't. Can you give me a better reason than what you've already given as to why I should support you, or at the very least not support Lonewolf I? (Or better yet, both?)
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Criptfeind

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #426 on: September 25, 2010, 04:33:25 pm »

Why?
Solly your entire defense is WIFOM and "If I was Cabal the Cabal would help me but instead everyone is helping the other guy" when it is still a tie in assists. You have seemed off most of the game, I can not put my finger on it but I have felt bad about you for most of it. Lynching you is what I feel is the best chance to hit scum.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #427 on: September 25, 2010, 08:10:19 pm »

Solifuge is pretty obviously town.

No, I don't think those are terrible choices for you to make.  Assuming you are scum, you made them.  They're working.  Besides helping you, Vector and Jim had something else in common: they were active.  Not something in overabundance right about now.

The scum are *very* close to completely controlling the game.  It's not quite over because there can still be scum infighting before the final duel, but it just about might as well be.
The bolded line is truly brilliant.

"Assuming you are scum, you are scum".

Hey, I should start using that line in maths class... "Assuming that X is 3, working this equation out will show that X is 3..."

IronyOwl is almost certainly scum.  JTF is likely scum.  Jokerman is also possible scum - he seems to be preparing to assist Lonewolf without anyone else noticing.

There is a chance of both combatants being town, but, if that is the case, the game's basically over already.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #428 on: September 26, 2010, 02:22:52 pm »

"Assuming you are scum, you are scum".

He was responding to
Assume I'm Cabal.

So yeah.
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Jokerman-EXE

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #429 on: September 26, 2010, 03:01:04 pm »

Jokerman is also possible scum - he seems to be preparing to assist Lonewolf without anyone else noticing.

Uhh, what? What do you mean, "without anyone else noticing"? I literally just said that I'm willing to assist Solifuge - not Lonewolf - if he can give me a reason to; in addition, I did very transparently. So what are you trying to say?

Cript: What? What are you saying and who are you talking to?
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Criptfeind

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #430 on: September 26, 2010, 05:06:09 pm »

Leafsnail apparently got Solifuge is town and JTF is scum because JTF said "Assuming you are scum."

I was pointing out that it was Solifuge that was the first to say "Assuming I am scum."
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IronyOwl

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #431 on: September 27, 2010, 02:59:09 am »

Seriously, it's common sense. Cabal wins this match, and kills someone today and they've won. This is the equivalent of LYLO. Therefor, if Cabal had someone in the ring, they could stack 3 assists on their darling combatant with a half-assed argument based on gut instinct, and enough space between to avoid immediate suspicion, and boom. Game set match.
By this reasoning, they will do so and the game is already over. If consequences don't matter, we're already dead. If consequences DO matter, they have a reason to not be obvious about it.


Solifuge is pretty obviously town.

No, I don't think those are terrible choices for you to make.  Assuming you are scum, you made them.  They're working.  Besides helping you, Vector and Jim had something else in common: they were active.  Not something in overabundance right about now.

The scum are *very* close to completely controlling the game.  It's not quite over because there can still be scum infighting before the final duel, but it just about might as well be.
The bolded line is truly brilliant.

"Assuming you are scum, you are scum".

Hey, I should start using that line in maths class... "Assuming that X is 3, working this equation out will show that X is 3..."
JTF is likely scum.
So... Solifuge is obviously town because JTF's argument is ridiculously scummy, but JTF himself is only "likely" scum? How the hell does that work?


IronyOwl is almost certainly scum.
Because?
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Solifuge

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #432 on: September 27, 2010, 12:32:08 pm »

Not sure what to think of the people shouting "Solifuge is obviously Town". but I also don't want to shoot Town in the foot here and get myself any closer to killed.

Seriously, it's common sense. Cabal wins this match, and kills someone today and they've won. This is the equivalent of LYLO. Therefor, if Cabal had someone in the ring, they could stack 3 assists on their darling combatant with a half-assed argument based on gut instinct, and enough space between to avoid immediate suspicion, and boom. Game set match.
By this reasoning, they will do so and the game is already over. If consequences don't matter, we're already dead. If consequences DO matter, they have a reason to not be obvious about it.

Irony, are you implying that the Cabal managed to get two Townies into the ring? That would be an interesting thing to say. Also yes, the consequences Do matter, and I'd agree that the Cabal are probably doing just this by leaping to back Lonewolf. Note that Joker changed his tune as soon as I called him and Janus out on having perfectly aligned opinions.

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Jokerman-EXE

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #433 on: September 27, 2010, 01:43:38 pm »

Irony, are you implying that the Cabal managed to get two Townies into the ring? That would be an interesting thing to say. Also yes, the consequences Do matter, and I'd agree that the Cabal are probably doing just this by leaping to back Lonewolf. Note that Joker changed his tune as soon as I called him and Janus out on having perfectly aligned opinions.

Soli, what are you saying? Do you think I'm Cabal for that? Because by your own argument, wouldn't that be the opposite of what the Cabal would want to do? I'd also like to point out that it was my intent from the start to ask for your clarification (believe me or not, that's up to you) and give you an assist if you earn it. We're so close to the edge that I don't want to make any kind of move until I'm absolutely sure of it myself.
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #434 on: September 27, 2010, 02:04:42 pm »

...
I feel bad for you Soli. People are stupid.

You're still not in this game...

Seriously, it's common sense. Cabal wins this match, and kills someone today and they've won. This is the equivalent of LYLO. Therefor, if Cabal had someone in the ring, they could stack 3 assists on their darling combatant with a half-assed argument based on gut instinct, and enough space between to avoid immediate suspicion, and boom. Game set match.

Then how can we win unless both of you are Cabal?  The Cabal already has a slight advantage in combat and they (can) know each other's Affinity.  Thus if there's one tower and one cabal, the cabal controls the fight.  If there's two tower, it doesn't even matter.

No, I don't think those are terrible choices for you to make.  Assuming you are scum, you made them.  They're working.  Besides helping you, Vector and Jim had something else in common: they were active.  Not something in overabundance right about now.

The scum are *very* close to completely controlling the game.  It's not quite over because there can still be scum infighting before the final duel, but it just about might as well be.
The bolded line is truly brilliant.

"Assuming you are scum, you are scum".

Hey, I should start using that line in maths class... "Assuming that X is 3, working this equation out will show that X is 3..."

The first rule of tautology club...

I any case, no:

A point for your consideration, whilst I catch up:

Assume I'm Cabal. ...

I was following that line of argument / phrasing.  And yes, I think that Solifuge is scum.

Combined with your insitance that Jokerman is scum because he's preparing to assist Lonewolf makes me think that you aren't even playing this game any more...  You get the surface details but you seem to have no idea what's actually going on.  Thus why I wanted you in the ring with Solifuge.
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