Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Criptfeind]

Are you really so stupid that you can't understand this?

Apparently.

I finally get what you are saying. I thought you were a scum grasping for straws but... Well thank you for explaining it to me. I did not even see how someone can connect the affinities to the roles. That was pretty dumb of me.

Going to formally retract my "Vector is lying scum" accusation.

[Vector]

Phew, good to hear it ^_^;;  I felt like I was going crazy for a few minutes there.

[Lonewolf I]

Assist Org's defense with earth.

There ya go, Meph.

[Toaster]

First order of business: Assist.

I've looked over the evidence, and Soli is in the middle ground.  He got my vote for being too eager to go into the ring, and he hasn't done anything to sway me that he is truly town.  This post reads to me as one giant appeal to emotion- and other posts of his dabble in it.  Org... I can hardly read.  His actual contributions are low-rent, and this post is a vague threat to the town that comes when he's under pressure.  Given the options, I think the best bet is to help neither of them.

No assist.


Next up:  Focus for the next day.

Lonewolf: 

Solifuge and Ottofar - Why shouldn't we pit our two most likely lurky players together in the first round for a nice, cathartic duel to the death?

Toaster - We were the only two players to resort to hex, and we both picked the exact same color.  Imagine the odds.

I shall make mine a bit darker.  Keep your "Garnet".

Unvote Ottofar

Solifuge - Pics of your kitten or you get to risk your life in the arena.  I love kitties. :-P

JetSquirrel - Have you never read through any games Vector played?  I find it hard to believe that you're only now figuring this out.

Since i admit i suck in mafia games now (played 2 games Begginer magia 1 and wizard duel 1) i cannot make proper decisions and badnwagoning people gets you in trouble most of the time. so i voted for her? to look how she and other people would react towards me. and thats all i can think off

Covering excuses for poor play amidst your reaction to her gender could be interpreted as a primer intended to cause us to subconciously forgive your mistakes ahead of time.  Why shouldn't I interpret it that way?

so i voted for her?

Why the question mark?  It's a statement of fact.  Why would you be questioning your own actions?  Are you afraid you attacked the wrong person, since Jim called you out on it?

These are your only two posts of Day 1.  In the first, you RV Solifuge and Ottofar with a question.  Ottofar never answers you, and yet you drop your vote on him.  Wanting to use your vote elsewhere is fine, but you completely drop your question to Ottofar.  If you don't care about following up, it tells the world that you don't really care about your question.  Therefore, either your scumhunting has no teeth or you already know his alignment (ergo you are scum.)

Assist Org with a defensive earthen barrier.

Neither Org nor Solifuge is striking me as scummy, and I see more value in this first battle in watching where the assists fall and in what order, and analyzing them afterwards.  I choose to go along with Org's claim mainly out of curiosity.

This just bugs me.  If you don't think of either one as scum, why work to condemn one?  You aren't required to assist.  (See note later)

I don't think anyone is scum at this point, and both Solifuge and Org have a tendency to not be useful.

I'll pick my attack on Jetsquirrel back up when the next vote stage starts, assuming no one else (looking at you, Vector) does anything suspicious during assists.

Lonewolf I, why not pick up your attack on Jetsquirrel now? There's no gap in discussion, and since you're not waiting to see what the results of the duel are going to be there's no reason to wait until the next Vote Phase to start.

Well, I was going to wait because I felt that scumhunting in the assist phase should focus on those going into the battle and anyone who makes controversial assists.  If Jetsquirrel does not provide an excellent reason for not assisting, however, he will enter the latter category and come back up to the top of my priorities.

Lazy.  Unsubstantiated attack on Vector.  Unwillingness to commit.

Is it necessary for the doc to protect?  For the cop to inspect?

Your assist is a tool to hunt scum, to defend those you don't believe are scum, or simply to test the waters in an effort to find someone's affinity.  Not using it is usually, if not always, a waste of potential data.

Now quit stalling for time and give a complete explanation of your reasoning behind this action.  A gut feeling, or lack of one, isn't going to cut it.

Now you're just looking for excuses.  I find it ironic that you would accuse someone of stalling here when you admitted not long before you were waiting for events to unfold (AKA let others do scumhunting for you).

Get your battle wand out, scum.

[Jim Groovester]

First order of business: Assist.

I've looked over the evidence, and Soli is in the middle ground.  He got my vote for being too eager to go into the ring, and he hasn't done anything to sway me that he is truly town.  This post reads to me as one giant appeal to emotion- and other posts of his dabble in it.  Org... I can hardly read.  His actual contributions are low-rent, and this post is a vague threat to the town that comes when he's under pressure.  Given the options, I think the best bet is to help neither of them.

No assist.

So, you're not entirely convinced Solifuge is town, but you also imply you're not entirely convinced he's scum. The reasons you listed edge towards thinking Solifuge is scum; what has he done to make you think he's town? I note you voted him, so the assumption is that you at one point wanted to eliminate him.

While we're at it, what do you make of Org's Guardian claim?

[Criptfeind]

Also I would like to point out that when I was telling a freind about this game (A freind that knows nothing of mafia) he said "Attack points? Defense points? Duelists? Sounds like Yo-Gi-Oh to me.

[Mephansteras]

Never played that, so any similarities would be pure coincidence.

[Solifuge]

Whoa whoa whoa. Slow down everybody.

Assisting is not necessary. Not assisting provides just as much information about yourself to other people as assisting does, and since all people are looking for is a reason for your actions, you do not have to assist if you have a good reason to do so.

Now, you could argue that there is no good reason not to assist, but I would disagree. If you don't have a stake in the duel, you think both contestants are very strong town, or equally scummy scum, or the people you were voting do not end up in the ring, then you could probably justify a no assist. If you also just want to see what the duel turns up on its own without any assists, that obviously requires not assisting too.

For example, if there was a duel between Jetsquirrel and Ottofar, I would be hard pressed to find any reason to assist either of them. I would likely not assist if a situation like that came up.

There's no hard and fast rule that says everybody must assist. Play it by ear, basically.

It's more important to know the why of an action than the actual action itself, and since Jetsquirrel did not provide the why, he can't get away with not assisting.

Jim, given what you know now, if your could choose whether or not to assist all over again, what would you be doing?

[Jim Groovester]

I don't think I would have been so rash about it, but I still think I'd assist Org.

Part of it is that I still suspect you for your crappy meta argument, part of it is that I believe Org's claim and can think of several excellent reasons why it would be a good idea to have him survive. Not because I expect he'll be able to do all that much with his role, but it delays the scum from incapacitating otherwise more useful members of the town. If the scum have to spend an incapacitation eliminating Org because of his role when otherwise they would never target him, I'd say that would be a small victory for the town.

If he's a Cabal Guardian, then he has an expensive role that is absolutely useless unless there's a Grey Mage, which is rare town role. From a strictly meta point of view (not meta arguments about player's styles), it makes sense to bet on Org being a Tower Guardian.

There's the problem of whether or not to believe his claim, of course. But since Org's head is on the chopping block and he seems to be doing all he can to survive, including trying to claim to maybe earn a bit of favor, and he's getting all CAPSLOCKy which is something he frequently does when he's about to be lynched as town, I believe him.

So there you go. That's why I'd assist Org.

Meph, are the roles in this game balanced the same way they are in the Paranormal games? I.E., each role has a weight and scum and town are balanced to approximately zero?

[Mephansteras]

Yes

[Toaster]

So, you're not entirely convinced Solifuge is town, but you also imply you're not entirely convinced he's scum. The reasons you listed edge towards thinking Solifuge is scum; what has he done to make you think he's town? I note you voted him, so the assumption is that you at one point wanted to eliminate him.

While we're at it, what do you make of Org's Guardian claim?

I initially voted him for this statement:

Vote stays.  Nothing personal.

Though other arrangements would be ideal, I am actually okay with this.

It verged on the WIFOM generated by a self-vote, so I chose to indulge him.  He never responded to me voting him, so I had no reason to lift the vote.  He's done nothing particularly damning, and he explained his reason for the statement eventually.  I'm unconvinced, but I stand by my no assist.

As far as Org's claim, I don't give it a lot of value either way.  If it's true, he's valuable- if he's lying, he's scum.  I'm not drinking that wine.

[Jim Groovester]

JTF: Where'd you go? You haven't posted since the beginning of the Assist Phase.

I think we're only waiting on JTF and Criptfeind else to declare what they intend to do this phase. Then we can move on.

So, JTF and Criptfeind, what are you going to do?

[Solifuge]

He's done nothing particularly damning, and he explained his reason for the statement eventually.  I'm unconvinced, but I stand by my no assist.

The trouble with a No Assist, at this point, is that the scales have already been tipped to one side. Unless I've got Org's affinity right and have a run of good luck, I have no chance at winning this. Like it or not, a No Assist in this case is choosing to back Org, through your own inaction. I could draw parallels to World War II, but I get the feeling that if I further elaborated, it'd probably be twisted to be some kind of Scum Tell.

If you feel we are equally worthy of death in the Arena, you'd seek to neutralize the playing field, by contributing some of the same Assists to me as were put on Org. Otherwise, you're taking sides. I'd note that this is also a convenient way to look non-partial, and play it safe by "not getting involved". Pretending to be useful, while sitting on the fringe when the chips are down, happens to be a classic Scum sign, whatever the Mafia.

[JanusTwoface]

JTF: Where'd you go? You haven't posted since the beginning of the Assist Phase.

Away from computer, that's why I asked how long the phase would last.  I'm back now.

Mephansteras: Can we get an updated official list of the assists so far?

Spoiler: Comments on Org (click to show/hide)

Reply #129 - Claims role (null tell, both teams do it) and affinity (WIFOM)
Reply #136 - Claims Vector/Solifuge scumteam (scummy to make pairs)
Reply #138 - Affinity claimer == WIFOM (WIFOM is usually scummy)
Reply #143 - Self-meta argument (scummy to use your own meta)
Reply #146 - Useful post defending himself
Reply #148 - Accuses Vector of buddying Solifuge (buddying and being on a scumteam are exclusive)
Reply #182 - Response is that Vector is scum ... that's about it, nothing on the charges leveled against him

Basically, he's being almost completely useless.  He feels like scummy Org to me.

Spoiler: Comments on Solifuge (click to show/hide)

Reply #158 - Long post saying that he's happy to be in the ring, attacking Jim, commenting on Org's WIFOM, and comment on Vector (seems useful to me)
Reply #168 - Another overly long post, argues Org policy lynch (scummy although I agree)
Reply #171 - Contains the collective posts of Org, I agree 100%
Reply #175 - Lime green is hard to read, attacks Jim Groovester more
Reply #212 - Ottofar = lurklurklurk (your point?)

Being way too wordy, but that's usual for both scum-Solifuge and town-Solifuge.  In general, he's being more useful than Org.  I don't really understand any of the complaints being leveled against him myself.

Spoiler: Other comments (click to show/hide)

Assist Org with Water Healing.

For one thing, I went on to explain that I didn't actually find you guilty of buddying back, simply that Vector was buddying you to some extent. I also provided evidence that Jim Groovester did not. These are my own reads. Don't like it, tough.

So you didn't actually find him guilty yet you assisted Org?

WIFOM is trying to outguess someone. So someone poisons a glass of wine and they leave the room: do they want you to switch the glasses or not?

Please stop posting.  You're not in this game.

(Janus asked for a pictures or he would vote me more recently, which I obliged).

No it wasn't.  It was Lonewolf I.

Assist Org with a defensive earthen barrier.

It looks all shiny, but I bet it's crazy hard to find for Mephansteras.  Votes in red, assists in green.

Holy hell I was going to do a read though of the game and try to make a big long post but shiiiiiit I think I found something and so I am going to post it undone for now. Vector is scum. Solly may be scum or Vector may just be buddying.

You say Vector is scum and then proceed to offer absolutely no evidence.  Good job.  It's not like Vector hasn't been discuessed to some extent already...

And then you post the same post again a few posts later *adding nothing new*.

Criptfeind, Jokerman-EXE, Jim Groovestar, and Vector (in that order) need more looking into.


I intend to assist Solifuge.  I'll do so as soon as I see the current assists.

[Mephansteras]

Jim Groovester inscribes Purple runes of Water in the air above Org to give him additional Healing
Jokerman-EXE inscribes Goldenrod runes of Water in the air above Org to give him additional Healing
Leafsnail inscribes Blue runes of Earth in the air above Solifuge to give him a Defense Boost
Lonewolf I inscribes Blood Red runes of Earth in the air above Org to give him a Defense Boost
Ottofar inscribes Maroon runes of Earth in the air above Solifuge to give him a Defense Boost
Vector inscribes White runes of Air in the air above Solifuge to give him a Speed Boost
Jetsquirrel has declared that he will not assist
Toaster has declared that he will not assist