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[Jetsquirrel]

If you're scum, apparently a simple bus was all you needed to push me in the ring, so well done on that.

If Vector is scum, she's bussing you?  Sounds to me like you're admitting to being scum.  Are you going to continue to ignore me, scum?

Jetsquirrel:  You're very passive.  You're waiting for something to happen without trying to make it happen yourself.  Passiveness is a scum trait.  Get scum hunting, or get in the ring.

Also, WIFOM

but im not good at scum hunting! In wizard duel 1 i somehow made it to the end and then fucked up badly

[Toaster]

Not being good at it is one thing, but not trying is another entirely.  Doing nothing means helping the Cabal.

[Jetsquirrel]

  true

[Solifuge]

Jet, practice is the only way to improve. Time and practice.

Solifuge:  Why did you never respond to my vote or question?

Toaster, I've had other things to worry about, and I didn't see the point you were getting at, nor that it was terribly important right now. Nevertheless...

Spoiler: Relevant Quote for the Lazy (click to show/hide)

Webadict and Toaster, what is the most reliable affinity to pick, and why? Also, when is the optimal time to reveal your Affinity?

Most reliable?  If you're a combat role, something with synergy to your personal boost.  Otherwise, probably fire- IMO when people are unsure which attack to use, they have a tendency toward picking fire.  Also, it boosts attack boosts on you.  When to reveal?  When the boosts you would receive would outweigh the danger of being opposed by your opponent.  By that logic, at endgame is when it is most dangerous to have your affinity known.

As to your "most powerful" question, I'm a speed freak, so that'd mean air.

More seriously, Jim was right on the ball about it from the get-go, but I notice it took three analytical posts on me for you to notice the Webadict thing. Also, I was rather expecting you to get you all up-ons my jokingly calling you "Town" rather than "Scum". Vote stays for now, for the Toaster bit.

What me bit?  You mean the RV question?

Vote stays.  Nothing personal.

Though other arrangements would be ideal, I am actually okay with this.

Why are you putting this wine in front of me?  I'll vote Solifuge if you like being voted.

The only non-rhetorical question there was "What 'Me Bit'?". If that's the one, then yes I did mean that you hadn't gotten back to me yet about the Random Vote. I was waiting for that.

If your question was "Did you mean to make that WIFOM?" then no, it wasn't the intent. Had I wanted to be in the Arena, I'd have voted myself. When I said that, I acknowledged that me not being in the ring would be ideal, but I also know that I have a Role/Affinity combination and the acumen to be able to make decent guesses at my opponent's Affinity, such that I could hold my own were I thrown in.  Maybe it's arrogant of me, but I think that I have a decent chance at winning an Arena match, by default, and in either case I'm not the sort of Role the Tower would sorely miss if I fell... so thus, I was in a way okay with going into the Arena. It's not the best solution, but it's probably second best... at least above the possibility of loosing an Archivist or Justicar or somesuch.

This, of course, was before Org got some Wolverine-Tier healing factors going on. My chances look pretty dismal right now, but such is the nature of the risk I was willing to take.

As for the rest of you, tell me what of your suspicions I haven't addressed, and I'd be happy to... though at this point I'm struggling to find something I can say that anyone will actually consider. I'd like to think Org's actions speak for themselves here, in relation to mine...  I've been active, submitted topics for discussion, pressured players, been logical and deductive, and so on. I've been trying to root out scummy behavior, and have done so. Meanwhile, Org is sitting back silently in a King's Castle, protected by people who are arguing that Vector's behavior is scummy, but rather than directing attention toward her, they claim that she somehow makes me Scum by proxy, and decide to fall in line against me... and with Assists that will effectively render this Arena Match completely useless to Tower, for finding evidence of the boosted Cabal Stats, by Org's combat effectiveness.

If you're not convinced I'm Tower, at least consider this: do you think Org has been more useful to the Tower than I? If nothing else, are my actions at least more helpful to Scumhunting and to the Tower's efforts to organize and find Cabal? Have my arguments and contributions made less sense, had less substance to them, or had less value than Orgs? In short, would you rather have me around (judging by my present contributions), or Org (judging by his)?

If you asked my opinion, to support Org is, by it's very nature, Anti-Tower. Supporting a player who has nothing of substance or value to contribute, and who's been trying his damnedest to confuse what discussion there is, is IDEAL for Cabal; their goal is to squash any semblance of Order that the Tower is able to construct. Moreover, I fully expect Org to get shoved back in the Arena after I flip, by the same people who supported him this round.

Cabal has not only the advantage of being able to remove one person from the Tourney per day, but they also have knowledge of who is who, and an innate advantage in combat itself, with their increased Stats and access to Dark magic. This lets them, should they be so inclined, to back a suspicious-enough player in combat, get them to kill the first Tower Mage to start trying to organize efforts to root them out, and then push the blame off on their chosen combatant the next day, for killing a Tower player.

[Ottofar]

Ottofar: Get your lazy ass in here and answer my goddamn question.

Ottofar, what are you doing random voting people who already have three random votes, pal? What do you hope to accomplish?

Ottofar, you didn't answer my question. What did you hope to accomplish by putting additional 'random' votes on people with three random votes already?

What do random votes usually accomplish?

I got a reaction. I found it defensive.

[Jim Groovester]

Though it's not ideal, I admit that I was secretly hoping to be sent to the Arena... the reason for which may be made apparent soon, and maybe not. I was lucky enough to get pitted against a bona-fide scumbucket though, which is a plus... sadly it seems that Org, whom both Jim and Janus find scummy, is somehow deserving of heavy buffs, which also effectively conceal any Cabal Tells we may be able to get from this battle. Well done on making this battle completely worthless to the Town.

Anyway, since I've now got my little spotlight, on to business.

It's debatable whether or not setting up battles to find scum tells is actually helpful at all. I don't really think it is. For one, you're counting the winner of a battle as a scum tell for winning, which is a problem if you don't actually have scum in the ring. A frequent problem the town ran into previous Wizard Duels.

This way, if Org wins, it won't be a big mystery how he won, and we can get back to looking at what he actually did instead of interpreting flavor text. What will be a mystery is how you win, however, with two assists going against you.

So Jim, I'm trying to follow your thinking here. I'm scummy, because Vector is waffling on her votes/assists towards me? What does that make you then, when you pulled not one or two, but Three U-Turns on me: you started off pressuring me from the RVS, and after your argument fell flat you switched into support mode. It wasn't until I voted for you (accompanied by a simple suspicion which you pretended not to see), that you hopped right back on me. Really blatant "Oh My God You Suck" aside, me and Org were then sent to the Arena, and you then proceeded to condemn Org for being useless, scummy, and ridiculous. Then citing some nonsense argument that, somehow Vector trying to buddy with me meant I was Scum, you decide that the only course of action is to buff Org, despite him being the player you were directly suspicious of. On top of all of that, you do it in such a way as to render any Cabal Tells he may have shown through the combat itself completely invisible. Oh, and way to backpeddle on your assist too (if anyone missed the hidden note, keep your mouse cursor on the underlined text in the above post).

Jim, you need to hold yourself to the same waffling standards that you accuse other players by, or you're going to look REALLY bad. Like right now. You're not an idiot, so why are you making your scumtells so damned apparent? For some reason, you're making a beeline for the quickest way to silence me, using a nonsense argument, and backing someone who you yourself find more scummy than me, and who you can easily incense the town against the next day. Is it because I called you on the fact that you're playing the Exact Same Game you were for Wizards 3, when you pulled a Cabal Victory by quietly manipulating town against one another in a little domino chain, such that when one duelist falls, the other combatant will be implicated for it right after?

Remember where my votes were. On you. Not on Org.

Let's clear a few things up.

1) Vector was not waffling with her assists. She assisted you as soon as she could, without stating her reason.
2) My argument at the beginning of the game did not fall flat. You never answered my question, which was whether you deliberately voted webadict or not. You decided to be coy about it.
3) Blatant OMGUS aside, you accused me with an evidence-less accusation, a feeling even. You offered redundant evidence. I took you up on that offer. You have yet to provide. I was in the lead for votes at the time. If I was going to go in the ring I damn well wanted to know why.
4) I didn't stop suspecting you over the span of a few hours when I was figuring out what was going on with Vector and Org.
5) Calling me a hypocrite doesn't strengthen your case and doesn't diminish mine.

At the time assisting Org was more a reflection on what I think of Org, not on you. I saw an attempt to get rid of him quickly, which I didn't think was warranted or even deserved, so I pushed back at the people I thought were responsible. If I called him scum or strongly implied that he was, I was being honest with what I thought at the time. But my opinion quickly changed, because things were happening very quickly.

But you're scummy enough on your own that I'm happy with where I put my assist. Maybe you should have tried distracting everybody more with your kitten.

Good lord.

Upon further reflection and a good night's sleep, I can't exactly pin down what's so terrible about having a meta argument against Org. I still don't like it very much since you still don't have evidence from this game that condemns him.

I think the only issue I had was your speed, since the Assist Phase is still a discussion phase and you just rocketed out the gate on that, and you did not state your reason why. You set off several alarms in the process.

This is a very nice speech. A few things.

People have been turning their attention to Vector, but since this is an Assist Phase and not a Vote Phase there's a limit to what anybody can do.

You've brought up several discussion points, like what affinity to pick and... your kitten. These are both irrelevant to finding scum. Either you didn't know what affinity to pick and you really like your kitten or you want to fill the room with noise to make it look like you're contributing.

You're also pinning every hope you have on surviving the duel on you being more helpful than Org. I'm not so sure you would be. I can't pin any post of yours during Day 1 as a particularly good contribution. Org isn't much better, of course, but you're asking people to bet on your potential to be useful when you haven't really shown that you are.

What do random votes usually accomplish?

I got a reaction. I found it defensive.

I can't think of a way for you to be any more useless.

I'm voting you again tomorrow.

[Solifuge]

I applaud your ability to twist words, Jim. You continue to misrepresent others, selectively ignore things, and shout with total certainty about your 5-second hunches and other nonsense. Should I lose today, please don't let him sweep this crap under the rug. It stinks.

I'll tackle this one piece at a time, lest folks get scared off by a text-wall:

You're also pinning every hope you have on surviving the duel on you being more helpful than Org. I'm not so sure you would be. I can't pin any post of yours during Day 1 as a particularly good contribution. Org isn't much better, of course, but you're asking people to bet on your potential to be useful when you haven't really shown that you are.

So, you feel Org has done more to further the cause of Town. Please explain how, rather than just implying it. Say what you mean, and stop mincing words.

Spoiler: The Collected Posts of Org (click to show/hide)

In.

Yeah, Solly, stop trying to help scum. By letting them have insight to what we may think is our affinity to help in duels.
Thats pretty scummy.

While that us why that is done, I find the possibility of choosing a color near of one's affinity quite possible. This puts some of us at a disadvantage.

But whatever.

Unvote.
Leafsnail and Solifuge.
First, at Leafsnail. Not really! Try rereading Wizard Duel 3, and BM 9 or 10. Nine I think. I actually do help town. And you shouldn't use meta on Org! Theres a reason I play as I do.

At Solifuge. I think I have given into my original suspicions, with your jumpy, less calm behavior as well as somewhat defensiveness, points you for scum.

Also, Janus and Leafsnail are very contradicting! One saying I am not helpful, the other saying I am somewhat helpful.
Derp derp.

Herp. Derp.
You can read, right?

Herp derp.
My power cant be used in the ring.

Since I am probably going to die, because town is stupid, I am a Guard.
Wooo.
Also, my affinity is earth.

Wow! Like it matters, I mean, really? Whatever.

Derp.
Derp.

Herp. I definitely see a Soli/Vec team. Vector is usually smarter about her choices, instead of rushing.
Trying to make sure your scum bud doesn't die, Vector?

Also, if you don't see the point of me saying my affinity, you really should be thinking harder.

Yeah. Vector. You are looking really bad. BMX or whenever, I was only angrier because I posted more since I didn't have homework. So ha! This is what helpful, TOWN Org is like.

Yeah. I am smart enough to use Wifom for the duel. It really wasn't that difficult of a plan to come up with.

You are comparing Toony and I, through meta. What? We are different players. That would be like comparing Pandarscenic and I.
And the other point you made was that it was not the verbose, town Org from BMX. Somewhat wrong, as in BMX, no one listened to a word I said, which pissed me off as I was the only one making any sense.

Now, for you. You are being irrational and rash with your decisions, assuming Solifuge of being town even though Soli was being silly and defensive, and to me it doesn't seem like normal Solifuge. Solifuge then went ooc about the kitten.

Also Leafsnail. Lurks, posting shit reasons. He said I am pretending to be helpful. Derp herp. Yeah. Okay. Some games, I do not act like this, posting three word sentences. Yet, in such games I have referenced in earlier posts, this is quite false. Such as now. Yeah.

Nothing to say but what You, Jim, had already said yourself. So why are you and Org buddying so much? Why do you trust Him implicitly? Why are you Championing the Hero of Herp here?

[Ottofar]

I think I'm going to support Solifuge. Just to see what happens. I'll follow a bit more.

[Jim Groovester]

Hmm. Yes, I see that what I said could be misconstrued as saying that I think Org has been more productive then you.

Here's what I mean: I don't think either of you have been very productive, so if it's a toss up between you and Org strictly on what you could do if you survived, I don't think it would be any great loss to lose either of you.

If we lost Org we would lose out on his herps. If we lost you we would lose out on adorable kittenness.

Nothing to say but what You, Jim, had already said yourself. So why are you and Org buddying so much? Why do you trust Him implicitly? Why are you Championing the Hero of Herp here?

Nobody ever gives Org a break. So I guess I felt sorry for him, especially since I don't agree with any of the arguments against him this game.

It does bug me that I appear to be doing Org's work for him. I stuck my neck out for him and he just disappeared. Fucking Org.

Org: Are you just going to sit back and let me take all your punches for you?

I applaud your ability to twist words, Jim. You continue to misrepresent others, selectively ignore things, and shout with total certainty about your 5-second hunches and other nonsense. Should I lose today, please don't let him sweep this crap under the rug. It stinks.

Don't knock my five second hunches. More happens in those five seconds to tell me who is and is not scum than any amount of scumhunting I or anybody else could ever do. Still need to do the scumhunting, of course. Those hunches don't come from nowhere!

I think I'm going to support Solifuge. Just to see what happens. I'll follow a bit more.

So you're just going to sit there and watch?

I can't think of a way for you to be any more useless. But I'm guessing you'll surprise me somehow.

[Vector]

@Jim:

As far as "rocketing out of the gate" goes, I'll have to admit that I've never paid much attention to the Wizard Duels previously, and thought my behavior was basically normal (especially because I was already pretty sure of which contestant I favored)

Meh.  It was definitely a mistake, but I didn't know it at the time.

[Solifuge]

(Replies in Lime Green. Also, please understand that any spite you read, though real, isn't a reflection on my actual opinions of you as people. We bros.)

Let's clear a few things up.

1) Vector was not waffling with her assists. She assisted you as soon as she could, without stating her reason.
She Assisted and withdrew. Moreover, you haven't answered how this condemns me, rather than her.

2) My argument at the beginning of the game did not fall flat. You never answered my question, which was whether you deliberately voted webadict or not. You decided to be coy about it.
Apparently you missed This Too. It was a damned reaction test. I even noted that you were quick on the uptake too. You must have noticed, since you attempted a deception of your own right after I did. Can I spell it out any more clearly, or will you manage to ignore this too?

3) Blatant OMGUS aside, you accused me with an evidence-less accusation, a feeling even. You offered redundant evidence. I took you up on that offer. You have yet to provide. I was in the lead for votes at the time. If I was going to go in the ring I damn well wanted to know why.
Again with your mask of feigned ignorance! I'd included the argument in the original post, and figured it was perfectly legible. I was being spiteful when I offered to be redundant. See This, and This. You yourself even agreed that you were playing the same way as you did in Wizards 3, when you pulled a Cabal Victory.

4) I didn't stop suspecting you over the span of a few hours when I was figuring out what was going on with Vector and Org.
Suspicion shouldn't stop. You don't have the luxury of stopping suspicion of anyone unless you're Cabal. Congratulations, you've graduated Mafia 101. Gold star.

5) Calling me a hypocrite doesn't strengthen your case and doesn't diminish mine.
Actually, when I'm pointing out how your argument is entirely fabricated, through your own use of duplicity and twisted words, then yes, as a matter of fact, it does strengthen my case... which, in the event that you forgot it too, is against you and your argument. As the great prophet once said: ¹⁴Herp Derp (Book of Org)

Jim, please start double-checking your own opinions and feelings before you proclaim them as fact, and if, on the off chance that you're Tower, I ask you to pause for a second and think for a moment that you may be mistaken. Also, I would appreciate it if you checked yourself, and substantiated your arguments with quotes, links, or anything. It's getting annoying to have to track down your actual posts, and link them for you. And fact-checking yourself would save me the time of having to point out your logical errors here, which you appear to be clinging to now as a matter of stubborn Pride.

If we lost Org we would lose out on his herps. If we lost you we would lose out on adorable kittenness.

Since the beginning of the vote phase, have I gone out of my way to mention my mind-shatteringly adorable kitten at all? Have my arguments been laden with photos of her and her little paws? Have I talked about how she just learned to poop in the litterbox all by herself? Have I waxed poetical about the little wobbly pounces she makes when she goes after an ant or house centipede?

Yes, but that was just now. The last time I mentioned her was about 130 posts ago (Janus asked for a pictures or he would vote me more recently, which I obliged). More importantly, If you run a thread-search on the term Kitten, you've talked more about her more often than I have at this point. Please don't continue to drag the wee missus into your arguments as though she was relevant, and put up your dukes already.

P.S. My apologies to Org, as I don't want to have misrepresented him. I fear I missed his first two posts:

I did not merely win.
I DEVOURED THE SOULS OF MANY WIZARDS IN DARK DUELS FOR THEIR LIVES.
A-hem. I mean, I won alot.

Oh gog no. Never would I take Dark. I don't like it.
Derp herp. I think Janus and Jim should go to duel because I am good and stuff.

And last but not least...

Derp derp derp herp derp.

I dont understand why Meph posted colors.

[Vector]

... Yeah, that's it.  Sorry, Jim, but your attempts to sling mud all over me are not going to keep me doing from what seems right.

Assist Solifuge's speed with Wind.

[Criptfeind]

Stacking the same type is better then a bunch of smaller ones correct?

[Vector]

Stacking the same type is better then a bunch of smaller ones correct?

Apparently.  I haven't worked the numbers myself.

[Toaster]

Solifuge: Noted.

Org:  Do you have anything to say on your behalf other than herp or derp?  Soli's laying out a well reasoned defense.  I'm not sure how much I buy it, but it's hard to see anything from you.  Are you complacent in the assists you've already received?

Leafsnail, have you forgotten about the game again?  You claimed Org was definitely scum:  what do you think of Solifuge?  Has your Org opinion changed?  If you're sure as you seemed you were when you voted, why haven't you assisted yet?