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Author Topic: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 7 - Game over! All Hail Criptfeind!  (Read 52256 times)

IronyOwl

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #435 on: September 27, 2010, 02:21:34 pm »

Seriously, it's common sense. Cabal wins this match, and kills someone today and they've won. This is the equivalent of LYLO. Therefor, if Cabal had someone in the ring, they could stack 3 assists on their darling combatant with a half-assed argument based on gut instinct, and enough space between to avoid immediate suspicion, and boom. Game set match.
By this reasoning, they will do so and the game is already over. If consequences don't matter, we're already dead. If consequences DO matter, they have a reason to not be obvious about it.

Irony, are you implying that the Cabal managed to get two Townies into the ring? That would be an interesting thing to say. Also yes, the consequences Do matter, and I'd agree that the Cabal are probably doing just this by leaping to back Lonewolf. Note that Joker changed his tune as soon as I called him and Janus out on having perfectly aligned opinions.
Your argument:

Quote from: Solifuge
Guys, if I was Cabal I'd have my buddies rushing in to help me, so I'm town!

The issue: If it was that simple, they would do that and win.

THEREFORE, there's a reason for Cabal not to do that, and your argument is WIFOM.

Do I need to include a diagram?


Moving on to your persecution complex:
Spoiler: Jokerman-EXE (click to show/hide)
Jokerman voted you for lurking and then asked you to defend yourself. He's been less critical of you than of Lonewolf. Trying to say he's ganging up on you is ridiculous, as is the notion that he "changed his tune."

That goes for you as well, Leafsnail.


Spoiler: JanusTwoFace (click to show/hide)
JTF... huh... he was sort of suspicious of everyone, even went so far as to ask Toaster and Jokerman what was more suspicious about you than other lurkers, then... declared you scum.

Hm...... Anything to say on this peculiar and abrupt shift, JTF?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #436 on: September 27, 2010, 02:23:15 pm »

Criptfeind inscribes Blue runes of Earth in the air above Lonewolf I to give him a Defense Boost
JanusTwoface inscribes Black and White runes of Earth in the air above Lonewolf I to give him a Defense Boost
Toaster inscribes Garnet runes of Fire in the air above Solifuge to give him an Attack Boost



Assist phase ends ~5pm Pacific Today
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #437 on: September 27, 2010, 02:25:39 pm »

JTF... huh... he was sort of suspicious of everyone, even went so far as to ask Toaster and Jokerman what was more suspicious about you than other lurkers, then... declared you scum.

Hm...... Anything to say on this peculiar and abrupt shift, JTF?

What sudden and abrupt shift exactly?  I've thought Solifuge was scummy since day 1. Or were you referring to something else?
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Toaster

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #438 on: September 27, 2010, 03:22:26 pm »

Leafsnail:

Solifuge is pretty obviously town.

Why are you not assisting him then?  If he's town and Lonewolf is scum, then you really want Solifuge to win.  If you think they're both town, does it really make a difference who you assist?  Why not say so if you think that?

IO and Jokerman:  Care to decide your assists any time soon?
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #439 on: September 27, 2010, 03:30:27 pm »

Toaster makes a good point.

Assist phase ends ~5pm Pacific Today

For those of you "waiting until later".  Later is now.  The assist phase officially ends in about 3.5 hours.
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Solifuge

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Vote Phase
« Reply #440 on: September 27, 2010, 05:23:01 pm »

Solifuge has mostly disappeared again, and a lot of his earlier content was irrelevant or odd. His "which element is most powerful" question was quite possibly affinity fishing, but his defenses of it were oddly passive, like he was trying to weasel out of it by saying there's no pressure.
Supposing you missed the "Answer at your Leisure" bit? It's not a demand, just a structured discussion topic. You don't have a problem with getting players to talk about a topic that is both relevant and completely safe, do you?

Seriously. I'm finding your reaction a might bit ridiculous, since you could say anything. You could create a false conception. You could talk about legitimate strategies to educate new players on the rules, as Jim did. You can not say anything too, if you don't feel so inclined. I fail to see this huge problem you're seeming to have trouble with.

Again, I take more issue with "Hey it's just a structured no-pressure discussion topic for you to answer at your leisure" than with the actual fishing, since the former makes it sound like useless banter. What was the point of the question in the first place, and why did you go to such lengths to mention that it's not a real question after the fact?

Firstly, it was a real question, and it did it's job by pulling a lot of aggressive responses and getting a few answers that spoke of the person answering them. Secondly, even a "discussion topic" isn't "useless banter". Whenever people talk, they betray things by how they approach the subject, what they see it as, what they do or don't contribute, etc. No discussion is useless banter... talking about so-and-so's performance in the last game, what's been keeping you from responding to the thread, etc. There's always things to be gleaned, for anyone who looks. Thirdly, I spent so much time explaining the reason behind the question because everyone kept grilling me on it (as you have continued to do). The alternative would have been to ignore the questions, which I try not to do.

Moving on to your persecution complex:

(snipped quotes)

Jokerman voted you for lurking and then asked you to defend yourself. He's been less critical of you than of Lonewolf. Trying to say he's ganging up on you is ridiculous, as is the notion that he "changed his tune."

I'd appreciate it if you'd drop the condescension. Mafia could use less asshats.

Anyway, on to important stuff. I don't have the benefit of objectivity here, as unlike 6 of your I'm on the chopping block. I see people who immediately threaten me, and the ability of my team to win, as my opponents. JTF and Joker both started the day with accusations, which I confronted with reasoning, and which they both subsequently brushed aside as though there was nothing to them. Thus, they were grouped as opponents.

Joker "changing his tune" is in relation to his attitude; he started the Assist Phase in line with JTF, agreeing with his statements, and mirroring his behavior in response to my arguments. I mentioned that all Scum need to do at this stage is pick someone, present a zealous, half-assed case with little to no support, and just slap enough votes down to tilt the tables. Suddenly, Jokerman says how he doesn't agree with JTF, and would be assisting me if I'd presented a different argument. It just stinks of getting called out on buddying, and then trying to distance himself.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #441 on: September 27, 2010, 05:47:32 pm »

What sudden and abrupt shift exactly?  I've thought Solifuge was scummy since day 1. Or were you referring to something else?

Day 1:
Spoiler: Comments on Solifuge (click to show/hide)

Being way too wordy, but that's usual for both scum-Solifuge and town-Solifuge.  In general, he's being more useful than Org.  I don't really understand any of the complaints being leveled against him myself.

Criptfeind, Jokerman-EXE, Jim Groovestar, and Vector (in that order) need more looking into.



I intend to assist Solifuge.  I'll do so as soon as I see the current assists.


Day 2:
Suspicious things I've seen:

Spoiler: Solifuge (click to show/hide)

Webadict vote was odd, really seems interested in affinities (I didn't notice both times earlier), tries to block assists based on looking for Cabal tells.



Long story short: Ottofar, Leafsnail, Solifuge, and Jetsquirrel are the most suspicious, more or less in that order.


You mentioned that you didn't mind him in the ring day one, but then went on to say you "didn't understand the complaints being leveled against him." You were a bit more critical day two, but you never came out and said he was absolute scum, nor did you explain why.



JTF and Joker both started the day with accusations, which I confronted with reasoning, and which they both subsequently brushed aside as though there was nothing to them. Thus, they were grouped as opponents.
So you're more concerned with who's opposing you than who's scum, and you refuse to acknowledge there might be something wrong with your arguments. They and I have explained why your arguments suck and don't work, and you've refused to comment on the fact other than to say "HMMMM HOW SUSPICIOUS THAT EVERYONE AGREES ON THIS."

Joker "changing his tune" is in relation to his attitude; he started the Assist Phase in line with JTF, agreeing with his statements, and mirroring his behavior in response to my arguments. I mentioned that all Scum need to do at this stage is pick someone, present a zealous, half-assed case with little to no support, and just slap enough votes down to tilt the tables. Suddenly, Jokerman says how he doesn't agree with JTF, and would be assisting me if I'd presented a different argument.
Unmitigated bullshit. I linked every post Jokerman had today; he agreed with JTF that you were spewing meaningless garbage, quite possibly because it was meaningless garbage. JTF declared you scum, Jokerman asked you to defend yourself and, when you did, said it didn't work. JTF assisted, Jokerman didn't. They're not acting the same, and Jokerman never backpedaled. Stop making shit up and point to quotes if you disagree.



With regards to assists: I know, but this is looking terrible in all directions.
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The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Solifuge

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #442 on: September 27, 2010, 06:01:25 pm »

It is difficult to explain in kind terms how frustrated I have become. Suffice it to say, I'm eagerly awaiting the duel. I hope that eventually you get at least one Cabal member pegged. JanusTwoFace should be in the ring tomorrow... I'm tempted to suggest Leafsnail and Criptfeind as well.

P.S. IronyOwl, after the day resolves, I would like to kindly suggest that you screw yourself. :D
More practically, try to avoid dogmatism in a game of logic.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #443 on: September 27, 2010, 06:29:11 pm »

God damn it.

Assist Solifuge's Attack with Fire.

He's absolutely fucking worthless, but he at least showed up. Lonewolf hasn't, and I'm getting a seriously bad feeling off Janus. Not that it's likely to matter.


A reminder Cabal: Risk big, win big! Dispose of rivals now rather than later; there won't be enough assists to beat you anyway later on.
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Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Mephansteras

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #444 on: September 27, 2010, 07:08:43 pm »

Criptfeind inscribes Blue runes of Earth in the air above Lonewolf I to give him a Defense Boost
IronyOwl inscribes Orange runes of Fire in the air above Solifuge to give him an Attack Boost
JanusTwoface inscribes Black and White runes of Earth in the air above Lonewolf I to give him a Defense Boost
Toaster inscribes Garnet runes of Fire in the air above Solifuge to give him an Attack Boost



Set-up phase is closed. I'll probably have the duel and side-actions up sometime tomorrow morning.

You may keep discussing things in the meantime.
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Jokerman-EXE

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #445 on: September 27, 2010, 11:03:19 pm »

FUCK.

I'm sorry guys, I got pulled away today and I didn't realize it was the deadline. That's all my bad.

In response to Solifuge, IronyOwl pretty much said everything I was going to say. I never said you were scum, dude, I just wanted clarification on your argument. Do you have a specific quote that you've got in mind for this argument?
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Quote from: Solifuge
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IronyOwl

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #446 on: September 28, 2010, 02:19:53 pm »

Oh no. I just now realized something.

JTF had grouped Solifuge into the somewhat scummy category since day one, but he'd never done much with it until it was certain he would be fighting Lonewolf- at which point suddenly he was obvscum who needed to die. That tipped me off, and I realized JTF was Cabal attempting to protect his buddy.

But I forgot about some things. For one, Solifuge had said he was fine with being in the arena; later he said he was "looking forward to the outcome of the duel." At the time, I assumed the second was some retarded sense of satisfaction from flipping town, as though it somehow vindicated him against his attackers. Taken together though, it might very well mean he's just not afraid of the arena.

For another, Janus himself mentioned that the game was pretty much over, barring a bit of infighting amongst Cabal. So he was aware of the fact that at some point allies cease to be allies.

What I'm getting at here is that even if Janus is Cabal, that doesn't mean Solifuge isn't as well. JTF acted strangely, but there's no guarantee he was protecting his cabalbuddy and not trying to dispose of him.

I may have fucked up.
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Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Solifuge

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #447 on: September 28, 2010, 03:21:13 pm »

It's exceedingly easy in this game for Cabal players to butt heads and even vote one another, while actually working to ensure that they don't die. Especially since Cabal have an advantage in the ring.

Unless Lonewolf is Cabal and loses, or their sabotage is blocked, they'll command the vote from here on out. I don't anticipate winning, and my death will almost be a boon: some of you will be able to chill out and drop the righteous indignation, start focusing on reading certain players who sorely need some pressure, and at least ensuring that Town wins in the Arena.

Cabal most likely won't risk openly collaborating yet, and will most likely remain subtle until they get one more removed from the picture to start flaunting how awesome they are. Watch who is being pushed into the arena from here on out. Tower can still force the Cabal's hand, though, if you manage to pressure one of their own; they'll not want to loose a near-certain victory once gained. Keep your eyes out for how different players react to your votes from here on out, for people who are delicately tipping the scales, and for any subtle connections, agreements, forced disagreements, or attempts to create distance between two players. Good luck, as you'll need it.

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JanusTwoface

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #448 on: September 28, 2010, 03:43:10 pm »

JTF had grouped Solifuge into the somewhat scummy category since day one, but he'd never done much with it until it was certain he would be fighting Lonewolf- at which point suddenly he was obvscum who needed to die. That tipped me off, and I realized JTF was Cabal attempting to protect his buddy.

... no. I'm trying to get the person that I think is scummier removed.  I don't really think that Lonewolf is that scummy, especially compared to Solifuge.  How is that protecting someone?  It's how lynching works in this game.

For another, Janus himself mentioned that the game was pretty much over, barring a bit of infighting amongst Cabal. So he was aware of the fact that at some point allies cease to be allies.

I said that the game was over based on Solifuge's reasoning.  If there are two Cabal in the ring, we're fine.  If there are two Tower, we're screwed.  If there's one of each, the Cabal could have basically forced a win with their inheriant combat advantage (although that might be less problematic than in the first wto rounds).

I don't anticipate winning, and my death will almost be a boon: some of you will be able to chill out and drop the righteous indignation, start focusing on reading certain players who sorely need some pressure, and at least ensuring that Town wins in the Arena.

Why?  Why do you keep saying this?  For the second time in a row you seem almost certain you are going to die and for the second time in a row the assists are balanced.  You seemed to want to get in the ring earlier which might suggest a combat oriented role which would tilt it even more heavily in your favor.  The only way to really seal your fate would be if your opponent knew your affinity for sure (which I doubt).

So far as the needing pressure, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happened to you...
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Solifuge

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Re: Wizard Duel 4 - Duel 3 Set-Up Phase
« Reply #449 on: September 28, 2010, 03:51:46 pm »

I assumed people knew my affinity, from how people have been acting/assisting. Also, I'm almost looking forward to it, because despite efforts to the contrary, certain players have made me into a great big distraction.

It's up for grabs, but either way I can see good coming of it. That's all.
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