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Author Topic: When Babies Attack.....?  (Read 1829 times)

Toast024

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Re: When Babies Attack.....?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2010, 08:14:53 pm »

Thats not a loyalty cascade, thats your reward for killing the beast. If it was a cascade, everyone would attack each other.
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Flaede

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Re: When Babies Attack.....?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2010, 08:48:37 pm »

Thats not a loyalty cascade, thats your reward for killing the beast. If it was a cascade, everyone would attack each other.

So when you kill it, do they only attack you? I admit I didn't live long enough to be sure.
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Toady typically doesn't do things by half measures.  As evidenced by turning "make hauling work better" into "implement mine carts with physics".
There are many issues with this statement.
[/quote]

monk12

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Re: When Babies Attack.....?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2010, 09:28:35 pm »

I will say that Dwarf Mode Loyalty Cascades are certainly Fun while they last, but are probably something you only want to do once just for the hell of it, much like a nuclear catsplosion.

In the interests of being clear, when you look at the profile of a dwarf, you can see the bit about "Is a member of such and such civ, is a member of such and such fortress government". When the military completes a kill order on the Dwarven Liason/Diplomat/Caravan, however, the complicit party is labeled an enemy of the civ. This causes other dwarves to flee/fight the traitor. However, since he is still a member of the fortress, dwarves who attack him become enemies of the fortress. This cycle continues until just about everyone is dead.

I do think there is more research to be done on Loyalty Cascades, as in the one I caused I noted dwarves who were previously enemies of the civ revert to civ membership for some unknown reason, and situations where a traitor would be listed as an enemy of the civ but a member of the fortress. One of these days I'll actually establish a test fort in an attempt to create an entire fortress who are enemies of the home civ and to document the specifics of how Loyalty can change. I'd do it now, but I am lazy and currently invested in Quake Live.

For anyone who decides to brave such ventures themselves, I advise forcing the military to stand down after the treasonous act is done. Otherwise, the military autoattacks enemies of the civ even if they are no longer members of that civ; this includes fellow squad members. It is also worth noting that civilian dwarves will flee your traitors as though they were an enemy, and vice versa; this behavior is ultimately made my fortress crumble to its end since nobody could finish off the crippled traitors who were in front of the booze supply.

Toast024

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Re: When Babies Attack.....?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 10:06:13 pm »

Thats not a loyalty cascade, thats your reward for killing the beast. If it was a cascade, everyone would attack each other.

So when you kill it, do they only attack you? I admit I didn't live long enough to be sure.
Yes. They believe the law giver is a God on [REGION]. You just destroyed their religion. The [QEUSTGIVER] gave the quest so they could take full control of the town during a time of distress.
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Flaede

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Re: When Babies Attack.....?
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 10:40:15 pm »

Hm. I thought that if you ALSO were a member of that town, that once one of them attacked you, that they then attacked each other.
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Toady typically doesn't do things by half measures.  As evidenced by turning "make hauling work better" into "implement mine carts with physics".
There are many issues with this statement.
[/quote]

NW_Kohaku

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Re: When Babies Attack.....?
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2010, 11:19:24 pm »

I remember hearing about loyalty cascades being caused within seigers when female mount creatures gave birth - the children of the mount creatures are not given proper affiliation with their seigers, and if they are aggressive beasts, will attack the seigers or even their own mother, and when the mother defends herself, she will kill her own children, setting off a loyalty cascade among the seigers. 

Basically, the seige eats itself if you can get lucky enough to have it happen. 

I would bet it would be quite amusing for your dwarves, sitting up high in their battlements with their crossbows and ballistas ready for the advance of the force of darkness to see.
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Flaede

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Re: When Babies Attack.....?
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2010, 11:38:27 pm »

That is not current. They kill their children, sure, but there is no loyalty cascade set off by this.
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Toady typically doesn't do things by half measures.  As evidenced by turning "make hauling work better" into "implement mine carts with physics".
There are many issues with this statement.
[/quote]
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