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Author Topic: Crime Focused Roguelike  (Read 97582 times)

Puzzlemaker

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #345 on: September 02, 2010, 12:49:38 am »

Gotcha.  I added you Kusgnos.  Hmm... I -was- going to go to bed, but since I don't feel that sleepy I guess I'll see if I can get the SVN all ready.

Edit:  Okay, I added a basic file structure in.  I'll start moving in some of the stuff people committed if I don't fall asleep, hehe.  For those of you who are new to SVN, a good client is:

http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/

I highly recommend it.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 01:00:34 am by Puzzlemaker »
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #346 on: September 02, 2010, 01:16:53 am »

Okay, added in a bunch of tiles to SVN.

ANY NEW WORK SHOULD BE PUT ON SVN.  PLEASE.

Lets at least try to keep this organized.

Another thing of note:  I did not add any human sprites to SVN, since there where so many variations.  We should probably talk about how to handle that exactly.
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Jack A T

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #347 on: September 02, 2010, 01:33:23 am »

I'll separate the people into their parts and update that end.

EDIT: Success.  All parts separated and sorted.  They're in the repository.  Could use some more parts, though.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 02:41:44 am by Jack A T »
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nenjin

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #348 on: September 02, 2010, 02:51:42 am »

I'm going to propose a system for narcotics, pretty loose to start. More like outlining what feature it could include, or the steps that might be involved in it.

First off, whatever people are comfortable with is what we should do. I'll say that we need drugs, but whether we need every single substance people can put into their bodies, just the key note ones, or just the ones people don't feel icky talking about, is up to the community.

I'm basically ok with everything. We don't need to get too deep into the difference between these drugs, even if ingested, as long as they stand apart for the player in terms of value, difficulty and inherent risk. More below. Skills and attributes are just listed so people can get a sense of what might apply.

So, drugs. Three parts.

Supply.

Processing.

Selling.

------

Supply. Whether you grow it, buy it "wholesale", steal it or make it out of some other product, it has to come from somewhere. The question becomes is the player a middle man, just pushing processed product, or are they doing the whole shebang from step 1 to step 10? There's a gameplay element here. Starting your own drug business would require more investment from the player, but turn a higher profit. Being a middle man would turn quicker but lower profit, and require a lot less logistics on the player's part. However you do it, it also include deals going bad, or, if the player is growing/brewing their own supply, they might become a target for law enforcement or OTHER criminals.

Next to each entry is listed the potential yield for each source.

Sources:
Other dealers (purchase/rob or kill) (HIGH)
Grow it. (HIGH)
Purchase/steal the necessary legal ingredients. (HIGH)
Steal it from the authorities, rob or kill them. (MED)
Steal/rob/kill drug users. (LOW)

Associated Skills/Attributes:
Charisma
Street smarts
Negotiating
Intimidation
Bluff
Business

Processing. Most drugs have to be processed in some way for consumption, even if it just means breaking it up into smaller quantities to sell to people at a higher price. Again the question for the player becomes, how involved in the process do they want to get? Let's assume that when players acquire a significant amount of any substance, whether they bought it or stole it, it has a required processing time relative to the quantity and substance type.

But not only is it a turn over time, it's a coefficient, that determines how much of raw product you turn into finished product. Your skills should adjust how well you turn 30kg of X into substance Y, or how many grams your plants yield. The conversion rate could be different if you're already working with finished product, then you'd only lose a little bit as stuff gets spilled on the floor. (Or perhaps you start dipping into your own product if you've got an addiction.)

So, processing should involve:
-Time. Lots of time eventually for lots of product.
-Land. You can't grow/brew/bag drugs without a place to do it in private.
-Equipment. All drugs require some equipment to make. Even if it's just a garden hose, a trowel or plastic baggies. We could abstract this to a general upkeep cost, or a one time set up cost via the items people buy/beg/steal to bring together.
-Skill. Skill reduces overall processing time and increases yield. (The yield should never be greater than a 1:1 ratio however.)

Associated Skills/Attributes:
Intelligence
Farming
Chemistry
Cooking?

Selling. I see this sort of as a general text option you could have with all NPCs. "Hey do you wanna buy some drugs?" or "Hey do you wanna buy...." and then you pick what you have on you from a displayed list, and the NPC reacts based either on their preference for a certain kind of drug, or their overall opinion of drugs. Selling in front of "the man" would check against some relevant skill to see if you can keep it concealed, or they're on to you and do their thing. But there should also be a tie-in to your general heat rating, because the more people you deal to, the more word spreads that you're "the guy" and that eventually makes its way back to "the man."

Associated Skills/Attributes:
Perception
Charisma
Street smarts
Sleight of hand
Business
Negotiation

The List of Substances

Just so we know what's on the table.

Listed next to each entry is is the drug's relative value, it's relative cost of investment and processing time, it's availability and it's level of criminality. An * means I personally think it's shouldn't be growable, because I think growing coca plants in people's backyards kind of stretches the simulation a little far. Meth labs, however, are entirely feasible.

Marijuana (LOW, LOW, HIGH, LOW)
Cocaine* (MED, MED, LOW, HIGH)
Crack (MED, LOW, MED, HIGH)
Methamphetamines (HIGH, HIGH, HIGH, HIGH)
Heroin (HIGH, HIGH, LOW, HIGH)
Opium* (HIGH, HIGH, MED, HIGH)
LSD (LOW, MED, LOW, HIGH)
Mushrooms (MED, MED, MED, LOW)
Ecstasy (MED, MED, MED, HIGH)
Prescription Medicines (MED, LOW, MED, MED)

A note on criminality: It should not only affect how harshly law enforcement sees it (how much heat it generates, ect...) but also how likely it is that drug deals of ANY kind go wrong. You're dealing with other criminals, after all, and the higher up the drug schedule you go, the more dangerous and untrustworthy those people become.
 
That's all I got for the moment.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 03:07:34 am by nenjin »
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Acanthus117

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #349 on: September 02, 2010, 03:38:08 am »

Hehe, that's cool.
 
I like it!

Hm, maybe a similar system can be done for illegal weapons (automatics/explosives/military grade), with changes and stuff.

Maybe a job could be guarding these transactions and stuff.
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Lap

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #350 on: September 02, 2010, 08:50:27 am »

ANY NEW WORK SHOULD BE PUT ON SVN.  PLEASE.

The directory structure is already wrong so you might want to hold off on that to avoid having to needlessly reorganize everything.

Drug stuff- I think you are giving meth creators too much credit in the investment and processing.

I liked what I saw on the item pad, but doing stuff in XML seems like an extra step for no reason. I'll try to throw up a more basic version of what I have to the SVN. It may not have a lot of the features done, but it has the right directory structure and should let everyone experiment with things easier. I will need access to the SVN for that though. Sourceforge username = tourresh
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Sir Pseudonymous

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #351 on: September 02, 2010, 09:56:43 am »

Listed next to each entry is is the drug's relative value, it's relative cost of investment and processing time, it's availability and it's level of criminality. An * means I personally think it's shouldn't be growable, because I think growing coca plants in people's backyards kind of stretches the simulation a little far. Meth labs, however, are entirely feasible.

Marijuana (LOW, LOW, HIGH, LOW)
Cocaine* (MED, MED, LOW, HIGH)
Crack (MED, LOW, MED, HIGH)
Methamphetamine (HIGH, HIGH, HIGH, HIGH)
Heroin (HIGH, HIGH, LOW, HIGH)
Opium* (HIGH, HIGH, MED, HIGH)
LSD (LOW, MED, LOW, HIGH)
Mushrooms (MED, MED, MED, LOW)
Ecstasy (MED, MED, MED, HIGH)
Prescription Medicines (MED, LOW, MED, MED)
Opium is actually quite easy and cheap to grow, considering it's produced by a common garden flower, which is legal to grow (though large quantities of them, and ones that showed signs of processing, would be suspicious at the very least). Hell, you can make it from commercially available poppy seeds. I also don't believe there's that much of a market for opium. I believe most opiate addicts are on either heroin, morphine, or hydrocodone.

LSD and mushrooms are, as far as I can tell, around the same cost on the market, and mushrooms can be easily produced by anyone with a few dozen dollars to spend, whereas LSD requires a proper lab setup and a significant degree of expertise to produce. Meth, in contrast, amounts to boiling cough medicine and ammonia in kerosene (from what I understand), all of which is cheap and easy to do, if extremely dangerous on account of the fact that you're boiling an extremely flammable chemical.

Cocaine would be extremely valuable, while meth and crack are both cheap gutter drugs for the dregs of society. Heroin probably falls in the middle range. Don't really know shit about ecstacy, though I seem to recall hearing the price for a cap once, which was in the same range as LSD and mushrooms.



My sourceforge username is sirpseudonymous.
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #352 on: September 02, 2010, 10:16:02 am »

Haha, Yeah, the directory structure I kinda did at three in the morning.  Feel free to move stuff around, just gave you access/admin.

As for the XML, it seems there would be a lot of information to keep track of with all the descriptions, how much you could pawn each item for, how bulky it is, etc, etc.  Keeping track of all that in the code would be a pain, and putting everything into XML wouldn't be that hard, IMO.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 11:27:15 am by Puzzlemaker »
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Tellemurius

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #353 on: September 02, 2010, 10:52:22 am »

Btw, unless your door is really crappy, shotgun/pistols will not really do much to it. Good, solid wood doors will stop most pistols and will make shotguns shoot a few times to get past it.

This is, for all intents, a crappy door's reaction to slugs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GB0VK7e350
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwKQZsC8RiI

And these are good doors:

http://www.rhinovault.com/ballistic_doors.htm

Plus there are anti-breach systems that plate the knob, hinges, and frame.

So you might want to consider that.
you can blast around that, the frangible material use for breach rounds is steel powder binded with wax. its basically sandblast times 100. the effective range is 6 inches as i said and yes this stuff is not good for killing people unless you like a foot from the person but this WILL leave a hole in them.

Tellemurius

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #354 on: September 02, 2010, 10:53:19 am »

Okay, added in a bunch of tiles to SVN.

ANY NEW WORK SHOULD BE PUT ON SVN.  PLEASE.

Lets at least try to keep this organized.

Another thing of note:  I did not add any human sprites to SVN, since there where so many variations.  We should probably talk about how to handle that exactly.
how about GIT?

Puzzlemaker

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #355 on: September 02, 2010, 11:13:01 am »

SVN hosting comes free with sourceforge, all set up and everything.
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rawr359

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #356 on: September 02, 2010, 12:10:32 pm »

I have some free time today. Where do I put my maps now?
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Jack A T

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #357 on: September 02, 2010, 12:12:36 pm »

http://piratepad.net/vVEWqeLn8P

The mapping piratepad. Yay.
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rawr359

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #358 on: September 02, 2010, 12:14:20 pm »

Yay indeed.
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Funk

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #359 on: September 02, 2010, 02:10:39 pm »

on drugs

costs
all these costs are uk based.

Heroin £13,000 per kilo at 40 per cent purity.
Ecstasy 40 to 70p in bulk, £2 street price.
Cannabis £1150 per kilo resin.£50 per ounce
cocaine £30 to £50 a gram.
crack rock costs between £10 and £20

Processing.
processing often does yield greater than the in put as most drugs are cut with other stuff

crack is an easy drug to make from cocaine.
one ounce of cocaine will some 370 rocks of crack
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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