Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[cappstv]

A simplified trail system?
Or how about a brand new ace attorneys game! Except this time your client really did did it!
Also its more realistic!

[nenjin]

I can't tell if that means your in support of the prison idea or against it

[rawr359]

I like it, but I think it should be by months.

[nenjin]

Like, bi-annual? Doing all 12 months for a 10 year sentence gets a little unsane, I think.

[cappstv]

My thoughts about prison
Have journalist and true crime writers visit you there. Maybe have some sort of randomly generated quiz thing that goes along with those events. Then they will describe your crime in gritty details, but unlike normal newspaper articles about your crimes, it will have your side of the story too.

Make prison escaping way more in depth. Have the option to recruit your cell mates or go at it alone. Then you will select what tools you will use and when on your prison schedule you plan to escape. Then you have to play though your escape. If you make it your story continues. If you don't you get a climatic end.

[rawr359]

Perhaps an option to play through incarceration?

[nenjin]

So there's been some disagreement as to the level of silliness and/or offensiveness we want to allow. Not even in the game play sense, just the kinds of easter eggs, quotes or things that make up items and descriptions.

So we think a good compromise is an optional mode for the game. We'll think of something clever to call it. All items would be parsed for tags like SILLY and OFFENSIVE and EASTEREGG. These items and/or descs would only show up in the "+ mode." We're trying to be pretty liberal about what we tag with what, and most items will have no tag. But we felt everyone has a line somewhere on what's acceptable, and I think this will probably help us focus what the theme and style of the core game is, while still leaving room for all the fun, bad jokes, in-jokes and stuff that people crave.

[Lap]

As for the XML, it seems there would be a lot of information to keep track of with all the descriptions, how much you could pawn each item for, how bulky it is, etc, etc.  Keeping track of all that in the code would be a pain, and putting everything into XML wouldn't be that hard, IMO.

Please make an example of an XML file for an item or whatever so I can see what you are proposing.

I'm tired from stupid kids drinking bleach and such. I should have the SVN updated in the morning or early afternoon tomorrow. I'm trying to remove all the random experimental stuff I was doing that could easily crash your game if you don't know what you're doing. Don't be expecting too much. Most of my time was spent exploring possible coding paths and experimenting with stuff.

And was there ever a consensus on if the city should be a "world map",  as in the city travel is at a different scale than most indoor areas. It sounded like there was more votes for having everything have the same scale everywhere, but I wanted to make sure.

Also, I don't know if there's a good solution to dealing with situations where you are trying to look from a fifth story down to the street or vice versa.

Easter egg stuff? Behold the magic of Lua where we can easily tag and make just about everything in the game optional.

[nenjin]

Also, I don't know if there's a good solution to dealing with situations where you are trying to look from a fifth story down to the street or vice versa.

Isn't it possible to just handle it like DF does, minus all the z-axis calculations? As long as enemies know how to reach the same elevation as the player, I think we can all accept not being able to shoot down the z-axis. I don't think anyone's expectations are that high, at this point.

[Lap]

It's all about time. If the engine doesn't have native support it means one of us has to code it in and something like that isn't even close to as easy as it sounds, which is why very few RL's have good Z-axis implementation.

[Kusgnos]

Following was some discussion on normal NPCs, unique NPCs, and identifiers that can give the player information about the NPC being looked at that was on the PiratePad. I put it down here, since it seemed like some good points, though we've yet to really put it all together.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nenjin: No real people as a hard rule.
Nenjin: I'm thinking LCS's professions is a good start.
Nenjin: People are defined by what they do.
Soulwynd: Yeah, but you don't know what they do when you look at them in real life, unless they're wearing some gear or uniform.
Soulwynd: So most people should be just anonymous.
Nenjin: I want shit like the Hangin Judge too for normal mode.
Jack A T: I agree with Soulwynd on the anonymity thing.
Nenjin: Hrm.
Nenjin: Not really a fan. That means we have to develop visual traits for everyone so the player can tell joe schmoes apart from each other.
Soulwynd: Perhaps if you somehow managed to acquire intel on one person or another. Then they could become an unique npc.
Soulwynd: Ie. The game generates an unique whem you go acquire intel on people.
Soulwynd: With generated name, profession, etc.
Soulwynd: Nenjin: Random sprite combinations.
Nenjin: I'd rather have it put professions first and generate all that info down from that point.
Jack A T: Average people/off-duty people are random sprite combinations.
Jack A T: People who should have uniforms have uniforms.
Nenjin: For example, LCS starts with profession, and only creates person data when you recruit or kidnap that person.
Nenjin: I think that's a better way to approach designing the people in the world.
Nenjin: Because they all have to be game play elements, so we should start with them as such. From profession you can expand to a lot of different traits.
Jack A T: I liked the SKRoguelike idea of giving names, but no non-obvious professions.
Nenjin: Income. Potential for violence. Opinion on crime.
Nenjin: We could do that.
Nenjin: As long as building NPCs starts from defining their skill base and attributes.
Jack A T: Make it so that you can learn the professions of the non-obvious people.
Nenjin: I don't like the implications of working backward toward those things.
Soulwynd: I thought the name was a bit too much, without you actually knowing their name. Perhaps if you talk to them, you can get name and profession. So they become Jack McDoe, garbage man, instead of "a person"
Jack A T: I agree with Soulwynd.
Nenjin: I prefer the abstraction that assumes you can guess that a person is about by looking at them.
Nenjin: But it's not ultimately up to me, it's up to who codes.
Jack A T: However, those with uniforms you can see the professions of, and those with name tags you see the names of.
Nenjin: I guess I just like a world clearly defined by roles from the outset, instead of having to learn.
Nenjin: Because that makes me want to use all available clues to study people.
Nenjin: Which means coders have to back that up with a system
Nenjin: That generates all that stuff quickly.
Jack A T: Hmm...perhaps with high intelligence and perception, you can see peoples' professions?
Nenjin: That's a nice touch.
Soulwynd: Ninjin, just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't already generated.
Nenjin: I know, I'm trying to wrap my head around that.
Soulwynd: As in, "a person" already has a name and profession and story and house and possessions and family.
Soulwynd: You just don't know it.
TNX: hello
TNX: what if you have to "research" a person first?
TNX: like look through their mail/trash
Nenjin: I'll put my faith in you guys having a plan.
Nenjin: That's been talked about right now.
Nenjin: So I want to see it like this.
Nenjin: I highlight a person with the mouse.
Soulwynd: Yep, TNX, that's part of it.
Nenjin: I click view.
Nenjin: I see 'mid 20s, blond, pretty, wearing a business suit."
Nenjin: I know I don't want to bother selling her drugs.
Nenjin: I click another dude.
Soulwynd: Yeah, that's granted, Nenjin.
Jack A T: Agreed.
Nenjin: It says "Mid 30s, hispanic, covered in tattoos."
Jack A T: And you get more information with intelligence and perception.
Nenjin: I guess he's a punk or at least interested in drugs and strike up a conversation with him.
Nenjin: Ok. That's what the system has to do for me, so I don't get turned off by a lot of anonymous people around me.
Jack A T: Exactly.
Nenjin: And with good sprites, the people you really care about, you won't have to investigate because they'll visually tell you.
TNX: yeah that'd be great
TNX: and maybe show strength too?
Soulwynd: Yeah, I mean anonymous as in, you don't know stuff you wouldn't know without asking or looking them up.
Nenjin: That works for me, as long as people can actually do it.
TNX: and maybe at really high perception "you see a tattoo of a dragon.." (he's part of a chinese gang?)

Also, I think most people agreed that indoor spaces should have the same scale. The only thing that ought to have a location change is between districts.

[nenjin]

Would cracking open LCS to see how it's handled there be of any use?

[Puzzlemaker]

Haha, wow, it sounds like you had a fun time Lap.

Here is a good example of fairly complicated XML with nested stuff.  I will eventually get around to doing one myself.

http://www.redversconsulting.com/images/cobol-xml-sample.gif

[Soulwynd]

I think it would be best to forget about XML, it's much easier to do items in .LUA and you have the advantage that's already in the code the game uses. Not to mention the items have lil bits of functions inside of them (such as the damage randomization function), they're basically classes (or structs, or tables, or constructs, depending on what language you are used with) with a variable range of definitions.


As for prison, I think it should be an actual area of the game, so you're able to kill inmates and attempt some fun escapes or getting killed in there. It's much more interesting than just skimming through menus. Of course, time could pass faster in prison.

[nenjin]

I like the idea of prison both as a punishment for getting caught, and an element of game play. I think just running around shooting prison guards and opening cells sounds kind of one track. What happens outside the clink is just as important to criminals as what happens inside. I think it adds a great deal to the simulation that the game isn't over when you're arrested and convicted, it's just another chapter in the tale of your criminal, how they went to prison and came out reborn hard.

I'd hate the game to just climax at "Cops shoot you, you die." Or "Cops put you in cell. Now walk out of cell."

It also sets up the potential to play the whole LIFE of your criminal, not just the part before they got killed. Imagine a whole game, going in and out of the prison system. When the game finally tallies your score, you could be proud of having an epic criminal veteran.

I think a prison side-experience sounds more flavorful, easier to do in a meaningful way and offers a change up of gameplay. Which is one thing I've always liked about LCS.