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Magic

44 (19%)

Magitek

38 (16.5%)

Steampunk

65 (28.1%)

WE DON'T NEED NO WEAK CONTRAPTIONS! (Normal)

28 (12.1%)

All of the Above (Moddable)

56 (24.2%)

Total Members Voted: 231

[ZebioLizard2]

I've been reading through the forums, half the time I see arguments against tech, for tech, for magic based tech etc etc.

I'm rather curious what everyone would vote for in such an argument, personally I would prefer all of them added, allowing for modders and players being able to remove things as seen fit, but that's just my opinion. Feel free to vote and explain why you would prefer something over the others.

Magic: This is the main magic sort of tech, no steam-punk, no Victorian ages, you would mostly see magical creations being made (undead, elementals, etc) Along with magically induced things such as teleportation and the like.

Magitek: Combined Steampunk and magic essentially.

Steampunk: Things you wouldn't really see in the normal world, odd trains and fancy things, Bathyspheres and flying machines, guns with explosive bullets! Along with things past the 1300's in general.

WE DON'T NEED NO TIN CONTRAPTION!: Normal Dwarf fortress, no technology, no magic, just pure utter dwarfyness.

[Quatch]

A better phrased question is: Which would you like to see default:ON in the vanilla?

[NW_Kohaku]

I'd honestly prefer something of a dual-axis spectrum, with x=0 being pure magical, x=10 being pure steampunk, and y=0 being no more, and y=10 being world-bending power at your fingertips.

I'd be somewhere around [2.5,3] on that graph. 

I'm not too fond of the steampunk stuff, although I do like realistic technologies, especially when applied in conjunction with some magical effects that would obviously change what would be "realistic" for a given situation.  (I really want air quality to be a factor underground, with things like psuedo-magic funguses that can provide air filtration, and vents and fans that you can construct to circulate the air.)

I'm not to big on just having squads of dwarven wizards, but I would like a sort of souped-up alchemy form of magic, where you can create functionally magical effects out of predictable formulas, and producable/farmable fuel and/or raw materials.  Combining this with normal production might make for alchemically enhanced metals for better weapons and armor, for example.  (Of course, plenty of this can just be plain moddable.  If magic is just a bounded scripting language for making scripted effects, we can fairly easily mod this stuff in.)

Likewise, I like having problems to solve more than just plain unlimited power.  The ability to make megaprojects like working calculators out of hundreds of thousands of gears and axles and water pumps and switches is a testament to the power of having a few simple "pieces" you can use in complex arrangements to create extremely complex outcomes.    Give me problems to solve (like the farming problems, or the social problems, or the like, with simple tools that can be used in conjunction with other simple tools to create complex solutions) that force planning, not just give me the ability to make giant dwarven mechs that vomit lava on invaders.

[ZebioLizard2]

Considering the normalcy, whats to prohibit you from doing so? Even if such was added, you most likely will still be doing things as they are now, with the additional benefit of more options.

[KillerClowns]

I don't have any interest in steampunk; I'm fond of the odd sort of dwarfpunk that's been created organically by working with the game's oddities.
Magic, I do like, but I'd also like the stuff to be chaotic.  Something that happens to you rather than something you create.  Harnessing magic should be a challenge a step above harnessing magma, and building a fortress in a magically saturated land should be something only experts and madmen do.

[Grimlocke]

All in due moderation, I would say. Id hate to see magic cheapened by squads of fireball shooting wizzards, or magma powered tanks.

What I would like see for technology is improved chemistry. More detailed metalworking, medicine, anaesthetics, poisons, acids and whatnot could all be glorious. Explosives should be very limited, some primitive gunpowder weapons could add some flavour, but adding dynamite or machine guns would just be rediculous (not to mention redundant, with the current crossbows).
The mechanical buildings could do with a lot of expanding, like multitile traps that actualy require power of some form, less clunky operation for building that have a delayed response, perhaps lever operated levers to allow the whole dwarf computer thing to be a bit less preposterously complicated.

As for magic I mostly agree with KillerClowns. Using it should come with come with severe risks, and without predictable outcome. Magical artifics and historic items have great potential, but dwarves themselves just dont strike me as the fireball shooting, skeleton summoning wizzard types. The closest they should get to directelly using it should be in the form of some alchemy, perhaps something procedurally generated.

[Cheater]

My heart, long held by the twin vixens of Thief and Arcanum, is invariable led towards the steampunk option.

[Neonivek]

Personally I'd like to see the defaults capable of changing a bit more between each randomly generated game.

[NW_Kohaku]

Magic, I do like, but I'd also like the stuff to be chaotic.  Something that happens to you rather than something you create.  Harnessing magic should be a challenge a step above harnessing magma, and building a fortress in a magically saturated land should be something only experts and madmen do.

Mmm... I touched into this a while back when I saw suggestions like this in nenjin's magic thread, but basically, I don't like the idea of completely random magic.  If having wizards in your fort means that all of a sudden, volcanos start erupting in the middle of your fort, or the HFS gets unleashed completely out of the blue, then the only sane response to seeing a wizard is to immediately dump him in the nearest magma vent, because DF is a game of disaster prevention, not of disaster management. 

It's actually something of a weakness in this game that there is so little you can do once something is happening to change the course of events from flowing, but that an ounce of prevention (and hence, forethought, and hence, foreknowledge) is worth more than tons and tons of cure.

(Compared to, say, the Avalon Hill board game version of Civilization and especially the expansion, Advanced Civilization, where you largely spend your time mitigating the constant stream of disasters falling upon you.  The game deals you a randomized hand of cards (literally), where you have to make do with what you've got to the best of your ability.)  (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_(board_game) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Civilization)

This is the reason I much prefer the "Alchemy" route of magic, where some creatures have innate magical effects, but generally (especially if you're a dwarf), if you want magic, you have to assemble it out of spare parts.  Dwarves can craft magic, but can't cast magic.  Plus, you need to have an industry set up to cultivate/ranch/mine/extract/process/distill the stuff you need to make the magic stuff, which fits right along with the way that DF already does and should continue to work.

[Sir Finkus]

I like some of the ideas toady had in this respect, such as cursed items with unique magical effects (such as an amulet that resurrects the dead in your fort).  I'd rather magic be a "lost art" that maybe only a very few elite know. Some magical creatures and creatures could have strange effects when eaten or otherwise used.  Maybe things like making a bed out of a haunted tree causes the dwarf who sleeps in it to have horrible nightmares that drive them to madness.  It could really add a lot to the game if done correctly, but I don't think fireball casting dwarves or elves would really fit in the game.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Dungeon punk.

[Black_Legion]

A quote, exactly from who I am sadly at a loss, states:

"Any significantly advanced technology is almost indistinguishable from 'magic' "

So going off of that you can potentially include anything you want and justify it on either spectrum. Personally I like the idea of having an option to choose how much of either I want, preferably editable in the raws. A varying level or magic and/or technology can make for interesting worlds especially when other randomized elements such as plants and materials make it into the game.

[nbonaparte]

A quote, exactly from who I am sadly at a loss, states:

"Any significantly advanced technology is almost indistinguishable from 'magic' "

arthur c clarke

[KillerClowns]

Magic, I do like, but I'd also like the stuff to be chaotic.  Something that happens to you rather than something you create.  Harnessing magic should be a challenge a step above harnessing magma, and building a fortress in a magically saturated land should be something only experts and madmen do.

Mmm... I touched into this a while back when I saw suggestions like this in nenjin's magic thread, but basically, I don't like the idea of completely random magic.  If having wizards in your fort means that all of a sudden, volcanos start erupting in the middle of your fort, or the HFS gets unleashed completely out of the blue, then the only sane response to seeing a wizard is to immediately dump him in the nearest magma vent, because DF is a game of disaster prevention, not of disaster management...

Good points, that I'd failed to consider.  I still think magic should be something you can never fully control, but I'll add two addenda to that.
One, risks should be relative to the scale.  A non-malevolent wizard in an ordinary land should be a risk to himself, first and foremost; at worst, he'll be possessed by a demon and go berserk, or maybe just explode.  A coven of wizards should carry risks like releasing a demon, causing crops to wilt, et cetera, but should also require player-prepared infrastructure.  This would mean things like arcane libraries, obviously, but a wise player wouldn't plop such things down until after preparing safeguards like magic-proofed granaries and summoning chambers suspended by a single, lever-linked support above the Magma Sea, ready to drop at a moment's notice.
Two: any externally caused disastrous magical events shouldn't come out of the blue.  They should be preceded by dwarves having terrifying dreams, unholy entities demanding blood sacrifice, messages informing you a blood-red moon, screaming peasants from other villages telling of the incoming blight, and other such harbingers.  If one of your dwarves collapses to the ground, and upon awaking, reports a vision in which the dark god Ursas demanded the soul of a legendary stonecutter, you should have the chance to comply with Ursas' will... or check his spheres, determine that he is the god of death, seal off your graveyard and start producing maces, if you think you can handle it.
I suppose magic shouldn't be so much chaotic, then, as dangerous.  You should have to consciously choose to play with powers beyond the mortal ken, and anything potentially devastating not caused by your own hubris should carry harbingers allowing you to defend against or even prevent the incoming mayhem.

[Vattic]

A better phrased question is: Which would you like to see default:ON in the vanilla?

I agree entirely but I would definitely like to see all of the above possible through modding. More flexibility in modding is good for the game just look at all the other PC games people still play because they can mod them.

Magic is a tricky problem. Too ordered and you make an industry of it. Make it too chaotic and it has little use. Too powerful and all else fails. Too weak and it becomes insignificant. So we want to avoid mass produced potions, have those without magic hold some sway and remain strong enough to at least move the story somewhat. I'd say having only a few powerful magic users works well, but magic use should come with it's own risks.