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[Trekkin]

This suggestion comes in two flavors:

1. Insufficiently skilled diagnostic dwarves decide to schedule healthy dwarves for surgery, perhaps more frequently when existing injured dwarves have been poorly diagnosed.and the "doc" has a poor memory.

2. the player could schedule dwarves for surgery to their specifications. In addition to clearing up a lot of the bugs wherein injured dwarves aren't treated, this would allow players with a more radical bent to schedule their military dwarves to have their body fat and extraneous organs removed so they'd move faster, or perhaps have their sensory nerves removed to make them immune to pain.

[Toybasher]

Toybasher approves!

Would to be fun to have your mayor's brain removed so he dosnt make mandates or something.

[Immortal]

It would clear up alot of problems. Agreed.

[NW_Kohaku]

Honestly, if we're asking Toady to make a change to the game, rather than having us manually order a surgery, I'd rather he fixed the bugs that prevent it from being automatic.

As for misdiagnosing healthy dwarves, wouldn't the dwarf have to come in for a checkup or something, anyway, to even be diagnosed (mis- or otherwise) in the first place?  That would mean that dwarves would have to start going to the hospital for some kind of scheduled exams that don't exist right now...

<Insert obligatory Dr. Zoidburg reference here>

[TheyTarget]

You're actually suggesting giving the player the ability to surgically remove organs of dwarfs at will...I see nothing wrong with this.

[Trekkin]

Honestly, if we're asking Toady to make a change to the game, rather than having us manually order a surgery, I'd rather he fixed the bugs that prevent it from being automatic.

As for misdiagnosing healthy dwarves, wouldn't the dwarf have to come in for a checkup or something, anyway, to even be diagnosed (mis- or otherwise) in the first place?  That would mean that dwarves would have to start going to the hospital for some kind of scheduled exams that don't exist right now...

<Insert obligatory Dr. Zoidburg reference here>

Not necessarily. I thought it might be that one dwarf's treatment was assigned to another, potentially healthy dwarf. Urist McHealthy gets told to report to the hospital to have his clearly diseased organs removed and so forth. Obviously this would have to be of low probability.

Also, I'm not suggesting that those bugs not be fixed, merely that we also have this method available.

[TheyTarget]

Theres not many things you can remove that wouldn't kill a person outright. Especially in a setting like dwarf fort.

[NW_Kohaku]

Theres not many things you can remove that wouldn't kill a person outright. Especially in a setting like dwarf fort.

You'd think that, but that's not really the case at all.  Dwarves really only need their brains, air passages (throat/lungs), and not to bleed out, as far as I remember.  Pretty much anything else will only do bleeding damage, including the heart (although removing the heart will cause pretty much immediate bleedout). 

See this thread: "I have come here to kick butt and to lose internal organs! And ..."

[Trekkin]

Further Suggestion: Limiting this to arena mode might be sensible.

At present, it looks like biochemistry/physiology is in its early stages, in that food and drink are currently, at their core, timers, or can at least be generalized that way; the "guts" are needed to turn a eat/drink event into a replenishment of those timers. Dwarves don't need a pancreas or spleen because there's no representation of insulin/glucagon/bile, nor a lymphatic system, so they're placeholders right now. 

I'm not criticizing this, merely noting that if/when we get a working dwarven biochemical model, the ability to remove organs becomes much more of a meaningful choice. At present players would simply rip out everything from their dwarves but heart, lungs, guts, skin, motor nerves, bones, and muscles, and get fast-moving extremely resilient fighters who work a lot like undead with blood.

Of course, the ability to voluntarily remove things perhaps gets too steampunk? If we're going off of a low-magic fantasy setting, having the evil warlord remove semi-vital organs from his minions to limit their lifespan and vastly increase their utility doesn't quite fit.

[TheyTarget]

Theres not many things you can remove that wouldn't kill a person outright. Especially in a setting like dwarf fort.

You'd think that, but that's not really the case at all.  Dwarves really only need their brains, air passages (throat/lungs), and not to bleed out, as far as I remember.  Pretty much anything else will only do bleeding damage, including the heart (although removing the heart will cause pretty much immediate bleedout). 

See this thread: "I have come here to kick butt and to lose internal organs! And ..."

I'm just going with the realism thing. I don't think its realistic to remove major organs to increase the speed of a dwarf.

[Trekkin]

Then what about severing sensory nerves to make them immune to pain? Removing bodyfat to make them faster?

[TheyTarget]

Then what about severing sensory nerves to make them immune to pain? Removing bodyfat to make them faster?

I think you could probably remove body fat. But the sensory nerves being severed, is something I dont think we can do with modern science on purpose. I mean I think its possible, but I guess that doesn't stop us from attempting it. I mean if it was possible, I'm 99% sure some military force would utilize it.

[Trekkin]

Then what about severing sensory nerves to make them immune to pain? Removing bodyfat to make them faster?

I think you could probably remove body fat. But the sensory nerves being severed, is something I dont think we can do with modern science on purpose. I mean I think its possible, but I guess that doesn't stop us from attempting it. I mean if it was possible, I'm 99% sure some military force would utilize it.

The problem with killing sensory nerves, aside from the lowered combat value of soldiers who can't tell they're wounded, is ethics.
Of course, in DF, "ethics" is a list of tags.

As to how possible it is, of course it couldn't work all the time, just like anything else dwarves try to do. I'm guessing at least a few players routinely try for insensate military with all the fat melted off now; this is simply a variably more reliable means of accomplishing the same goal.

[NW_Kohaku]

You can remove body fat, it's actually part of a very risky exploit you can do to make a dwarf nearly fire-proof, by setting a fire, and moving your adventurer into the fire to melt pieces of fat off their body, then taking the time to recover from all the blood loss (since there is no such thing as a "burn" in DF, tissues simply start melting when you catch fire, and the melting causes bleeding damage)...

If you can gradually melt off all the fat in your body, you can essentially remove everything that makes you seriously vulnerable to fire, and as long as you don't have many clothing articles that can burn (use silk), then you can have a fire-proof dwarf through melting away all your fat.

See this thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54174.0

Regarding removing the nervous system, keep in mind that DF doesn't distinguish between "pain receptor" and "motor control", and damaging your nervous system, especially the spine, can permanently paralyze a dwarf.