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[HailFire]

Caesar, would you mind picking that post/specification apart for inaccuracies?  I've tried to use a (somewhat ideal) orb spider for the base, but since you're the arachnologist here...

How'd you manage to assume the form of Silver? He wasn't murdered, unless you count age as murder...

Jack takes the forms of both murdered and murderer; Silver was the original murderer, having slain Ictor during the events of Phera's descent.

[Karnewarrior]

Ah. I thought it was just the murdered.

[HailFire]

...Now that I think about it, anybody who opposes him is going to have to be really careful about fighting other gods.

ED: Depending on what we count as murder.

[dragnar]

Hmm... are we getting close to the next turn? I want to finish my artifact, but I will need Akiel's help... and he has no acts.

What are you working on again?

Not telling yet. But I am gonna ask Akiel to forge my giant crystal of magic into a double sided spear. Then I'll add magic.

Hard to describe, but something like this... only more symmetrical:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[nbonaparte]

Okay. that can be arranged.

[LAAT501legion]

Sorry guys, I have been busy, I hope I could make my turn today

[Iituem]

...Now that I think about it, anybody who opposes him is going to have to be really careful about fighting other gods.

ED: Depending on what we count as murder.

Murder is defined (by Shaq, for the purposes of this) as the killing of one sapient being by another.  Beast killing a beast doesn't count.  Sapient killing a beast doesn't count (but does come under Hunting, a separate sphere).  Beast killing a sapient doesn't count, but is pretty horrifying.  Only a sapient killing another sapient counts as murder - and it counts no matter the reason for the kill.

Shaq's memory ability is both a terrible limitation and a potential advantage.  He can only know what murderers/murdered knew at the time of the murder, but he does know everything they knew.  This has been the reason that Shaq hasn't travelled south once since his creation - nobody, or very few, murdered anyone else thanks to the influence of their patron gods.

However, there are two/three ways we can refine Shaq's ability.  The first is simply to rule that demigods and gods are completely immune to this - whether they be killer or killed.  The second is that there is an order of precedence involved.  If a god kills a mortal, either only the mortal's memory transfers or there's just no effect.  If a god kills a demigod, quite possibly no effect there either.  If a demigod kills a mortal, only the mortal's memory transfers.  If a demigod kills a demigod, both memories transfer (though not powers, unless that power was sheer skill).  If a mortal kills a demigod, both transfer.  If a demigod kills a god, perhaps just the demi?  But gods killing each other, whilst on an equal level, are probably too extensive in terms of experience for Shaq to absorb at once anyway.

I'm not sure.  Perhaps Caesar can give a better ruling on this.  The simplest is mortals only, a more complex one would be mortals/demigods.  God memory absorption is probably ridiculously overpowered.

[Caesar]

...Now that I think about it, anybody who opposes him is going to have to be really careful about fighting other gods.

ED: Depending on what we count as murder.

Murder is defined (by Shaq, for the purposes of this) as the killing of one sapient being by another.  Beast killing a beast doesn't count.  Sapient killing a beast doesn't count (but does come under Hunting, a separate sphere).  Beast killing a sapient doesn't count, but is pretty horrifying.  Only a sapient killing another sapient counts as murder - and it counts no matter the reason for the kill.

Shaq's memory ability is both a terrible limitation and a potential advantage.  He can only know what murderers/murdered knew at the time of the murder, but he does know everything they knew.  This has been the reason that Shaq hasn't travelled south once since his creation - nobody, or very few, murdered anyone else thanks to the influence of their patron gods.

However, there are two/three ways we can refine Shaq's ability.  The first is simply to rule that demigods and gods are completely immune to this - whether they be killer or killed.  The second is that there is an order of precedence involved.  If a god kills a mortal, either only the mortal's memory transfers or there's just no effect.  If a god kills a demigod, quite possibly no effect there either.  If a demigod kills a mortal, only the mortal's memory transfers.  If a demigod kills a demigod, both memories transfer (though not powers, unless that power was sheer skill).  If a mortal kills a demigod, both transfer.  If a demigod kills a god, perhaps just the demi?  But gods killing each other, whilst on an equal level, are probably too extensive in terms of experience for Shaq to absorb at once anyway.

I'm not sure.  Perhaps Caesar can give a better ruling on this.  The simplest is mortals only, a more complex one would be mortals/demigods.  God memory absorption is probably ridiculously overpowered.

It's completely as how I pictured it, although I would make the rule on 'murder' a bit more loose. There are reasons of killing the person that would not be murder. Putting somebody out of their misery, for example, would not be.

[Iituem]

I would generally argue against that - one of the points of murder is that it doesn't matter if it was for a good or a bad reason, it's still murder.  That way, a hero slaying a villain is still as much murder as if he was slaying a baby.  But since assisted suicide is voluntary, I'm not sure.  Could do it so that so long as it's not specifically desired by the murdered it counts as murder.

Since Jack doesn't get suicides, perhaps deliberately wanting to be killed by that person (and that person going along with it, fully intending to kill them for their sake - so a hero trying to battle to his death doesn't count) will bypass the clause.  Bear in mind also that this is a neutral act - you can use it to put an elderly cancer patient out of terrible pain.  Or, in an act of misguidance, you can use it to slaughter a severely depressed mental patient because they can't think clearly on what they want.

Similarly, manslaughter will probably get out of it - intent is the key.  If you didn't mean to harm them in any way and it was a complete accident, it's manslaughter and I think you'll get out of the bond.  If you meant them harm (e.g. pushed them angrily on the side of the road - then they get run over by a car), it counts.  Think of how many murder cases start with "I didn't mean to kill him!".  Still murder.

Up to you, if you think intent's a sufficient loophole.  If no harm (for whatever reason) was intended, it won't count.



Corollary:  If you tortured someone to the point they beg you to kill them and then do it, it's still murder.  I mean, you deliberately got them there after all.  Driving someone to kill themselves is a grey area.

[Caesar]

According to the law, manslaughter is 'killing without planning', in a way.
Murder would be to actively have planned how to 'dispose' of the person.

You've also got 'death by guilt', which would be if you did not mean to kill the person, but you did do something wrong that caused it. (Like driving drunk).

That's in The Netherlands, at the very least.


But we'll count murder as 'killing another sapient being with intent to kill involuntarily'.

[Iituem]

Ah, really?  In England if there was intent to harm, it's murder.  On-the-spur killings are still murder here, premeditated is just worse.

But yeah, things like running someone over by accident are enough of a grey area that they probably escape Shaq's clutches.

[Caesar]

Ah, really?  In England if there was intent to harm, it's murder.  On-the-spur killings are still murder here, premeditated is just worse.

But yeah, things like running someone over by accident are enough of a grey area that they probably escape Shaq's clutches.

Premeditated.. That was the word I was looking for.

[Karnewarrior]

Akiel needs to get moving, I want elves driving cars and dwarves flying fighter jets.

[Evergod41]

we need vampires...

[Iituem]

That would be next turn.  I'm not ready to make vampires yet.