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[I3erent]

Is JADE or ADOM even in acctive development? Toady busts his ass and keeps us all informed along the way best DEV ever!

[Keiseth]

The night before I tried Dwarf Fortress I was toying with the idea of a roguelike where you manage a dungeon. Specifically, I had thought of the player still controlling one being, but issuing commands. I was greatly inspired by Dungeon Keeper (2) in that regard, but when I had played Dwarf Fortress, it sort of blew my ideas away. It has a huge amount of depth, and in my wildest dreams I never imagined a game where you could play an Elven Warrior, crusade around the world, retire and open up a Dwarven Fortress, get clobbered by demons and take your elven warrior back to explore the ruins.

It's incredible really.

Actually, after I had mentioned my thought to a friend, they had told me about an interesting Strategyish game for the SNES/Sega Saturn with a similar idea. You created a dungeon and had to fend off people who thought you were evil, despite your attempts to help them, or some such. Wish I remembered the name but both versions of the game were in japanese-only...

Oh, and I had learned that you should never, ever, ever play with floodgate switches in your old fortress. Another reason Dwarf Fortress should be praised; that funny feeling you get when you wonder what that switch did, then open a door and get hit by a few hundred gallons of water, flooding the entire fort. Whoosh! Blew me all the way to the chasm and into it.

Name another roguelike with something like that. Dwarf Fortress could coin "yet another unique and arguably comical death."

Edit/Addon: What is a Roguelike? The most common trait I've seen is that time stops before the player moves, and once the player takes an action, everything else takes an action. The second could be randomly generated maps. I say this because there have been a few commercial+console Roguelikes, arguably: Chocobo's Dungeon and Azure Dreams, for instance. There are more I'm sure but I'm not aware of them.

Sure, the line blurs a lot in some cases, but I guess Roguelikes just FEEL like Roguelikes. Ever play Gearhead? It's very forgiving; getting clobbered will often result in being taken to a hosptial and suffering a massive reputation penalty, not often permanent death. It still has the movement aspect I mentioned and also randomly generated dungeons.

Technically even Dwarf Mode may fall under that; the map is generated, and everybody takes turns. Although they take turns extremely fast because, I don't know anyone who would play 5 years of a fortress while it's paused and only using the period key to proceed with actions. =)

If you really want to get technical, the purest, most Roguelike game of all time has to be Rogue. Everything else from there is progressively less Roguelike. XD

[ May 02, 2007: Message edited by: Keiseth ]

[Jusal]

The most usual definition seems to have to do with the lack of drawn graphics. Then again it's not so with IVAN and it is still considered a roguelike.

Personally I've always thought it's mostly the depth of the game, the possibility to die to a lucky monster or trap any moment and the very unforgiving death system that even takes care to delete the save files.

[Leerok the Lacerta]

quote: Actually, after I had mentioned my thought to a friend, they had told me about an interesting Strategyish game for the SNES/Sega Saturn with a similar idea. You created a dungeon and had to fend off people who thought you were evil, despite your attempts to help them, or some such. Wish I remembered the name but both versions of the game were in japanese-only...

Chaos Seed. It was quite entertaining, and rather difficult. It's an easy way to learn the days of the week, though.

[JT]

Roguelike can only be adequately defined as "having gameplay like Rogue".  That involves permanent death, dungeon crawling, and turn-based gameplay.  However, you can still apply "roguelike" to various dungeon crawls, including Diablo and Diablo II, as long as you're careful to point out that it has "some" qualities of a roguelike and isn't defined specifically as a roguelike.

[maasto]

"it looks like a lame version of adventure mode:
ADOM video[/URL]
No contest whatsoever DF wins hands down."

eh... obviously you know nothing about adom.

[Citizen of Erl]

Well, I knew I couldn't get into ADOM due to it's horrible gamecrashing bugs. And the required grinding for rares. And reading about how buggy endgame is.

DF just has a klutzy interface, when one can learn in a short time.

[Heliopios]

quote:Originally posted by Citizen of Erl:
<STRONG>Well, I knew I couldn't get into ADOM due to it's horrible gamecrashing bugs. And the required grinding for rares. And reading about how buggy endgame is.</STRONG>

Idiot.

[Capntastic]

quote:Originally posted by Heliopios:
<STRONG>

Idiot.</STRONG>

Nice counterpoint.  I've noted (especially at  @play, that anyone who does not sing the praises of ADOM will inadvertantly get insulted by a fan of it.  It says a lot for a game's fanbase if their response to someone pointing out well known flaws is to immediately jump to schoolyard tactics.

I even the playing field by saying that Nethack is a mishmash of drug fueled ramblings, Crawl is bland, IVAN is for sadomasochists, Mordor's guild system was too simplistic and lack of permadeath made the gameatrocious, GearHead was nothing but a insubstantial wet dream for the animu crowd, CaveQuest is for people who think they're too good for ASCII and Rogue is an unoriginal pile of trash.  I will insert a smiley to let my emotions on this subject of namecalling be more easily divined:   :roll:

But to prevent us all from getting expelled from Rugby for drunkeness, I agree with COE and also put forth that the static game world got me bored of the game relatively quick.  You can only do the same opening quests so many times before they get stale.  

In the Blue Corner we have DF which is being worked on constantly, has a responsive developer, has a lot of boundary-pushing ideas, and attempts to generator of worlds that can be manipulated through standard roguelike stuffs, as well as an awesome city-building mode, and eventually more and more cool things.  

I THINK THE ROAD TO A BETTER FUTURE IS CLEAR

[X]

AND THAT ROAD IS CLONING TOAD.

X

[Grue]

But buggy endgame part is pure bullshit. ADOM has its share of bugs, but they are all fairly minor.

[puke]

WoooOOOooo, lets hear it for drug fueled ramblings and animu wetdreams!

a real fan of a game embraces its flaws, but finds enough merit or simple enjoyment in the thing anyway.

go ahead, say something about omega.

[4bh0r53n]

Ive tried a few of these games, but i keep coming back to DF as not only does it have an adventure mode, but it also has a strategy mode which gives the game an extra dimension so to speak

[Toady One]

Omega was neat.

On the name-calling, including more content in posts is desirable from my standpoint as a forum moderator.  The involved parties might benefit from a discussion that actually mentioned what the ADOM bugs were, if they exist, instead of talking passed each other.  The involved parties might even come to a meeting of the minds at that point.  It's important not to be vague or abusive.  Being abusive is worse than being vague, of course, from the forum moderator standpoint again.

[Gaulgath]

Capntastic: You read @Play too? Heh, I remember the comments about the ADOM article. I never got into the game myself.