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[Dedas]

However, I really think that DF should be platform independent in the future. Open source is not needed though.

[Guy]

quote:Originally posted by Dedas:
<STRONG>However, I really think that DF should be platform independent in the future.</STRONG>

Agree'd.  I'm going to buy one of the new Macs soon, and a native Dwarf Fortress would be nice.*

* iDwarf anyone?

[Grue]

Oh, gawd, why would a gamer buy a Mac??? That's horrible waste of money!

[Guy]

quote:Originally posted by Grue:
<STRONG>Oh, gawd, why would a gamer buy a Mac??? That's horrible waste of money!</STRONG>

Well, there's still Boot Camp.

[flap]

Well, yes I definitally feel that Dwarf Fortress that Jade could have occupied. And for sure, Toady One and Tomas Biskup style are very different :
- Toady's is messy like hell with plenty of undone stuff left everywhere, wealth of details... But that's specifically in the middle of that mess that all the little wonderfull stuff of Dwarf Fortress appear.
- Thomas' is clean, nice. But however deep. you don't get lost in a huge wealth of apparently not so usefull info. But, well you don't have this feeling of "How that knowing whether I use sandstone or granit is not important ? Yes it has the same stats, but I like sand stone doors, and same for my dwarfs".

Yep, too bad that Thomas has stopped Jade's development, it would have been interesting how these two projects develop, look alike and differenciate.

[ElectricEel]

quote:Yep, too bad that Thomas has stopped Jade's development, ...

He does claim to be actively developing the game (see the last news entry on adom.de), though updates to the public have been rather infrequent.

[ March 26, 2007: Message edited by: ElectricEel ]

[Gaulgath]

Huh, in one of the rgrn threads on DF people wanted the combat to be LESS complex. Ugh, after playing this game I don't think I can ever stand "hit points" again. Really, you can break someone's arm and make them drop their weapon, then slowly strangle them to death! Or cut off someone's head with one mighty slash of a great axe!  

[TotalPigeon]

Oh god, I have to agree. The combat is this game is so far ahead of anything else I have ever played, I mean how many other games let you kill skeletons with spinning flies? Or bite off an entire dwarfs head?... Clicking on someone until they fall over and inexplicably vanish just can't compare

[flap]

Yep, the system is cool. However it would require much more work on the interface to the user.

But well we all know that DF is alpha. For sure this will greatlt be improved one day. But when ? maybe tomorrow, maybe in two years, maybe later... !  

[Keiseth]

Out of all of the Roguelikeish games I've played, their combat systems seem like pale imitations of DF's now. =)

You know, even if they're older, like NetHack. XD

The only Roguelike that has a similar system is perhaps IVAN (Iter Vehemens ad Necem), although it hasn't been updated in a while. But it's open source so that might not be an issue. You still have HP, but each body part takes specific damage. You can lose limbs and certain losses are fatal, as you might assume.

Still not quite as graphic as DF's combat due to the HP system usually killing people before limbs fly off, but I never got far in it. The neat thing was some gods would replace your lost limbs with anything from Iron ones to parchment ones.

Iron limb replacements? No! We can't use alchemy on Dwarf Fortress! It's forbidden!

Alchemy Canceled: Interrupted by Alchemical Explosion.

[Guy]

quote:Originally posted by Keiseth:
<STRONG>The only Roguelike that has a similar system is perhaps IVAN (Iter Vehemens ad Necem), although it hasn't been updated in a while. But it's open source so that might not be an issue. You still have HP, but each body part takes specific damage.</STRONG>

I remember IVAN.  I think each of your body parts had its own HP, and the HP it showed was the total.

Say, doesn't DF also have HP for body parts, but just doesn't display it?

[JT]

Yeah, DF bases how much damage a body part can suffer on the SIZE attribute, I believe.  It's not possible to completely divest yourself of a hit point system unless you want to get into modelling the volume and mass of flesh and bone that get damaged by attacks.  While it would be pretty darned cool to play a modern combat simulation which had accurately-simulated human bodies to the point that a perforation in your gastro-intestinal region resulted in peritonitis and all of those nasty things, it's a lot easier to abstract it.  The difference is that DF abstracts it only a little, while other roguelikes abstract it a lot.  I'm a fan of both simple-and-elegant and complex-and-emergently-unpredictable, however, so I like both kinds (though the HP spiral in most games does bug me... superhero or not, a ballista bolt is going to pwn you).

[Xeirxes]

I like ADOM a lot, in fact it still maintains its place as my favorite roguelike. I'm sure when Adventure Mode is done, this will be my favorite roguelike. I don't consider DF Mode to be roguelike, because it's.... not like Rogue. As far as strategy/economy/building sims go, DF  in Dwarf Fortress mode stands as my absolute favorite.

[Eagleon]

Personally I don't see the need for HP at all, for anything but table-top games. Computers can keep track of individual wounds, how deep they are, etc. very easily, and they can bleed, weaken the person, and seal based on other conditions. Players could target wounds, making them deeper or causing pain if they hit. This makes medical and healing skills much more interesting than just choosing the optimum method to cure the most amount of hitpoints without wasting power or money.

Anyway, yeah, Jade would be great. I remember being excited about it when I read the "plans". Too bad Biskup dropped off the edge of the world.

[LordBucket]

quote:people there are that are so anti-DF because it is closed-source

I suppose I'll mention that I'm the maintainer for Dragonball T, a module for ToME. (Still in alpha)
http://wiki.t-o-m-e.net/Modules_2fDragon_20Ball_20T

Personally, the open-source vs. closed-source issue doesn't phase me. I'm a module developer for an open-source game, and all of the module code that I've spent literally several hundreds of hours developing is all completely available for anyone to look at, use and steal as they please...Dwarf Fortress is still totally unique, nifty, and very fun to play. Trust me, when I stay up late playing DF, I'm not losing sleep over the inability to look at the code.

Anyone who takes time and effort from their personal lives to make a game available to the public is doing everyone a service. If they want to keep the details to themselves, that's perfectly reasonable. Commercial motivations aside, when you spend as much time developing a game as I'm sure Toady has, you tend to get emotionally attached to it...and I can see how tough it could be to let other people rearrange the insides of 'your baby.'

I'm all for open source, but as an open source developer, I say anyone who has a problem with somebody who keeps their code secure should stop complaining and go build something themselves.

Bucket Man