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[lumin]

Recently I have been browsing through the google rec groups for roguelikes (check it out here) and have noticed a lot of talk about 'Jade'.  Here's what the developer has to say about what features it is going to have:

Here's the link.

quote:
JADE will basically have everything ADOM has and a lot more. Plans include:

A complete world with continents, weather patterns, settlements, dungeons and strange places, either randomly generated at the start of each game or chosen from a number of preselected worlds.
A quest generator for random quests. No two games ever will be the same.
Dungeon and world size only limited by the boundaries of Java-technology and your hardware.
No classes, but a detailed skill system, together with a guild system providing special benefits for guild membership.
All the races from ADOM and a few more (mist elves, ratlings, hill dwarves).
Complete freedom in what you want to do (e.g. explore dungeons, work as a caravan guardian, build your own castle, conquer cities, lead a life as a simple farmer, become a shopkeeper or whatever).
Hidden plots. (Has Chaos been truly defeated in ADOM or is something lurking behind the scenes and waiting?)
Monster inventories.
The ability to transform into another being.
A detailed system for morale values (on an Order...Balance...Chaos scale) and ethics (on a Good...Uncaring...Evil scale).
Platform independence due to Java-based technology.
Compressed save files.

Does this sound familiar?  I've also looked at what most people had to say about DF, and it's not good.  A lot of them will not play DF or are heavily critical of it because it is not open-source or platform-independent.  These are the same people who absolutely worship ADOM and the upcoming Jade which, by the way, is not supposed to be released unto around 2013.  

It really angered me to see how many people there are that are so anti-DF because it is closed-source.  It's a little ironic isn't it?  I mean people who claim to love open sharing of software, but so closed-minded about touching stuff like this.

Sorry 'Jade', but you're a little too late, Dwarf Fortress has already beaten you about 10 years early.  I'm also sorry for those who have 'closed-source' brains who won't see that the greatest roguelike ever is already here and is getting better everyday.

[herrbdog]

Wow, interesting. However, I don't like Java as a development language, personally. Too high-level, thus too much processing power required for the simplest things.

DF is my choice! Besides, I really like DF as NON-open source, so it is one cohesive vision, Toady's.

[Gaulgath]

It really sucks how they are criticizing DF for not being open sourced. I am actually glad that it's closed sourced, really. I don't want to see a bunch of spin-offs (Angband, anyone?) I actually enjoy waiting and seeing how Toady is making this game more awesome every day.

I don't understand why it should be open sourced anyway. Most games today aren't. Plus, DF is free, and always will be (hopefully).

DF is one of the most fun Rougelikes I have ever played, and it's in its Alpha stage. This game will be, dare I say it, revolutionary when completed.

[herrbdog]

Will be revolutionary? Heh, I think this game already is!  

[MoonCabbage]

it looks like a lame version of adventure mode:
ADOM video[/URL]
No contest whatsoever DF wins hands down.

[MoonCabbage]

quote:Originally posted by MoonCabbage:
<STRONG>it looks like a lame version of adventure mode.
No contest whatsoever DF wins hands down.</STRONG>

ADOM Video

[AlanL]

Hmm

Looks like theyre trying to do things the right way.

Dwarf Fortress has actually been pretty successful at doing things the right way.

DF is a clear winner in my books.   :p

[Zaratustra]

I don't know. It'd be cool to have another game like Dwarf Fortress but with different focus and

quote:JADE is in active development - during the past couple of weeks (April, 2004) I have made pretty good progress on various parts of the code.

oh, nevermind.

[JT]

JADE is vapourware, no doubt about it.  However, Biskup in Christmas '06 did mention he was still working on JADE, so it's not like it's been non-existent forever.

ADOM is a flatly amazing game, incidentally.  It's my favourite roguelike of all time simply because it's so elegant and it leaves its humour for circumstance, not for bad cliches and fourth-wall violations.

[Toady One]

Isn't ADOM closed-source anyway?

Still, I think it's cool that somebody could find that much time over the years to work on a game and keep it together.  I have some problems with ADOM, but I stuck with it long enough to win it with an archer or some such thing.

[Eruydanann]

Ermmm, "postcardware"? I don't think Mr. Biskup ever actually made hubbub about the legal side of things. I remember he gave permissions to some people for ports to the 'Nux, the Macs et cetera (Nuxers like to port stuff, and when there's stuff to port, there's Nuxers). I think he made everything himself besides some of the port-work and the FAQ.

@lumin
But wasn't that a MMOG-type game#1/comparison/game#2 fanboi reaction at the start?
I. I encounter foos
II. The foos play that
III. Some strange connection
IV. That must be auto-bad due the foos

Would it be exactly how those particular Open Sourcers probably think? Except they take the part one from a game not being sourced out for them to port into their Nux. Or a similar situation. I can see the reverse happening if a "adom player" sees your post before trying the game out. Yeah, I know it's frustrating to see people mock something they haven't even tried out because of some strange ideal.

I feel the talk's about two games that have different focus (diversity is good). I like DF because it is doing something that I have been flipping out about since I first heard the term "MMORPG". When I found out the history aspect, I actually gibbered in glee. That was rare, like choice moments across classic games in the past. Only a few post 95 games have gotten that same feeling of kewlnewness out of me.

I hope I made this sensible. Sorry about the mid-part (if it doesn't make sense). That's just what I read, and then thought about (for a couple of hours). Not to mock, but to point out the similarness.
-E out

[JT]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>Isn't ADOM closed-source anyway?</STRONG>

Yeah, I think that's the nature of the hypocrisy here... ADOM is closed source, yet all of its fanboys who are eagerly awaiting the still-closed-source-but-intended-for-open-source JADE are detracting from DF because it's closed source.

Man, wouldn't it be a much better world if no one had to learn the definition of the word "irony"?

[Guy]

quote:Originally posted by JT:
<STRONG>
ADOM is closed source, yet all of its fanboys who are eagerly awaiting the still-closed-source-but-intended-for-open-source JADE are detracting from DF because it's closed source.</STRONG>

I took a look at Google Groups, and quite frankly I don't see the hate for Dwarf Fortress you guys say there is.

Actual discussion of Dwarf Fortress seems to be rather sparse.  The only significant threads I found were here and here, where the first thread has some posts by Toady.  The reception of Dwarf Fortress seems to be quite positive actually.

The ADOM community seems to be almost like us in their hesitatison in moving towards open source.  Here's this thread for an example.  ADOM also receives its share of flames from the open source crowd, which seems to mostly come from the Nethack crowd (as a few comments in this thread and this thread).

I'm too lazy to check the word on JADE, but I get the impression that people, while hopefull about it, don't exactly see it seeing the light of day.

I just don't see anything in Usenet that suggests the existence of rabid JADE fanboys and racist Dwarf Fortress bashers.

[Toady One]

Yeah, I'm not surprised they don't talk about it much.  It's not really like the main roguelikes in any practical way.  It doesn't play like one, to the extent that adventure mode plays at all.  There aren't really any puzzles or level-grinding or item choice issues, and no overarching goals or challenges that are the same between games (such as retrieving or killing this or that).  DF being closed-source isn't going to get rgrd excited about it, since anything they're curious about isn't immediately available for inspection, not that I mind talking about how I've done things.  It seems mostly like a different group of people for a different kind of game.

[JT]

Incidentally, I was extrapolating based on what people were saying.  I don't know of any ADOM fanboys who detract from DF personally.  Hell, I'm an ADOM fanboy and I don't detract from DF. ;-)