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Author Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (Now on PC)  (Read 1377 times)

nenjin

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Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (Now on PC)
« on: August 19, 2010, 04:25:32 pm »

Slated for October 5, 360 and PS3.

Konami's blurb:

Quote
A rundown from Konami:

    Castlevania: Lords of Shadow follows Gabriel as the player battles to confront the three factions of the Lords of Shadow, traversing over 50 diverse and beautifully realized stages, coming up against over 45 enemies, and defeating huge adversaries that dominate the screen and must be fought in real-time, demanding skill, power and timing as the player scales these enormous creatures.

    Within Castlevania: Lords of Shadow's stunning 3D worlds lie a mixture of gameplay elements. Combat and action see Gabriel using his powerful Combat Cross weapon to cut a swathe through the enemy, while secondary weapons can also be used against foes: silver daggers to kill werewolves, or holy water to scald and destroy vampires, for instance. In total, the game boasts over 40 possible combo attacks, which are learned constantly throughout the game.

Ok...

I'm making this thread so someone with a console can tell me what they thought. I've had no hopes for this game as restoring Symphony's winning combinations. All I read in that announcement is "COMBAT COMBAT COMBAT, GOD OF WAR, DEVIL MAY CRY, COMBAT COMBAT COMBAT."

So someone tell me if there's any decent RPG/exploration in it, and if the level designs are still completely fucking laughable.

I mean seriously....having played the newer Devil May Crys, is there even a reason for this game anymore besides the IP? Without the IPs that distinguish these games, there is almost nothing different about them.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 07:40:27 pm by nenjin »
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fenrif

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2010, 05:19:08 pm »

I've only seen a few trailers and previews for it, but from what I can remember it's going to be much more of a God of War thing than Devil May Cry. Looks like they're going for a very cinematic style, with a bigger focus on characters and narrative. They've also got a few big name actors doing voice overs for it, Patrick Stewart being the only one I remember. I also seem to remember some giant boss fights akin to shadow of the collosus/god of war 3, but who knows how they'll play out.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the game was originally just called "Lords of shadow" without the castlevania... Apparently because Konami didn't want people to know they were drastically changing the direction of the castlevania games untill close to release. Not sure how true that is.

I think wikipedia mentioned something about leveling up and getting xp and the like. I can't imagine it being a very deep system though. I'm also expecting no real exploration, though they'll hopefully surprise me with a completely open environment.

I'll post a few thoughts once it's been released and let you know how it plays. I'm pretty excited about it, but I enjoy these kinds of games anyway. :P
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nenjin

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2010, 01:56:28 pm »

11 minute trailer of the game: http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/lords-of-shadow/1123995p1.html

Apparently it's doing quite well in metacritic scores.

I've really mixed feelings about that trailer. On the one, they picked my favorite Super Castlevania track. Mixed with the environments they were showing, it really got my attention immediately. (Could they have really done it?)

But as the trailer played on, I kind of felt like that was a cheap shot. Evoking the best memories of the original Castlevania, only to tell you that it's a completely fresh start.

The bullet point list of features sounds exactly like all the games it's being compared to, and the narrator doesn't do a better job of convincing you otherwise. Having just played DMC4 and Darksiders recently, the formula is getting stale.

And when the publisher straight up tells you it's good for 20 hours...I dunno, it doesn't make me want to pay serious money for that. If it were good for more, you'd think they'd make that a selling point. Their over emphasis on "a compelling, mature story delivered with gravitas" also made me cringe a little bit. Kojima, MGS, all that. If the trailer comes across as overblown, chances are the story is going to be too. Castlevania's story has always been delivered in bite-sized chunks, and the last console attempts to do otherwise didn't make the games any better. I don't see that being different here. Looking at some of the enemies, I also kind of miss the charm of the JRPG look that stayed with the series for so long.

But I've got to admit, I'm now hoping for a PC release, because a lot of it does look really good. I've always loved Castlevania for the setting, and they seem to have nailed that. I'm just not so pleased about the game fundamentals basically being ripped out and having the more successful 3d title stuff transplanted in.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 03:47:53 pm by nenjin »
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fenrif

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2010, 03:01:40 pm »

I guess it comes down to how much you enjoy 3rd person brawler gameplay. I really really dug Darksiders in a huge way, and providing the setting and writing and such is up to snuff, this looks like it'll be worth at least a playthrough.

Though after playing Front Mission: Evolved I'm starting to think that japanese developers shouldn't be left in charge of their own games. ¬_¬
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Puck

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2010, 03:32:00 pm »

Everybody and their castlevanias ffs! I still havent beat part one on the NES :/

nenjin

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2010, 03:51:15 pm »

I enjoy the 3rd person brawlers quite a bit. But after...3? previous Castlevania offerings, all the DMCs, God War, Darksiders, ect... to see them fall completely in lock step with what's going on today is just kind of a let down. That said, the platforming looks damn good and not shallow.

I'm hoping they don't let go of the "gratuitous use of European religious and fantasy elements" either. The item collection seems downplayed, sort of inline with recent games.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Hawkfrost

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2010, 05:47:09 pm »

Once it comes out then we'll have our answer.
I'm not going to rule it out until I try it and see for myself if it is good.

The platforming looks good, and the titan battles could be fun. The puzzles though make me think of the annoying ones of the same type in Zelda.
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nenjin

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 07:40:16 pm »

So uhm....yeah! This is out for PC today. I paid zero attention to this after release, knowing I wouldn't get to play it. I only really remembered it was releasing because the sequel is already making the rounds in the press.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 07:44:41 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (Now on PC)
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2013, 08:54:27 pm »

As I remember this game was good and also Castle-fucking-vania.
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nenjin

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (Now on PC)
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 11:48:28 pm »

Well my first couple of hours really, really, REALLY disagree.

#1. I won't see the castle for several chapters yet. The whole first couple of hours feels like a godawful tutorial, repeated giant white letters popping up on the screen telling you the same thing over and over and over again. After the first two levels I was like "haha, ok, well let's start the game now." No, it's still going, tediously dolling out things like the platforming elements one level at a time.

#2. 98.6% linear so far. Lush, inviting outdoor environments that you can do fuck all with. And you can't even rotate the camera to admire them.

#3. QTEs, everywhere. An entire level of "climb this thing and don't get smashed" masquerading as a boss fight.

#4. Cutscene after cutscene after cutscene. If they really delivered, I wouldn't care. But so far they don't.

#5. The entire game is a fixed camera angle. Every "scene" feels like that moment in a 3rd person action game where you climb something and the camera locks you down. It sucks, frankly. Allows them to do amazing visuals in the environment, sure. But little else.

#6 Combat is sporadic and stupidly easily so far. Fights are the nuggets fed to you as you platform and tolerate the story. Or do a logic puzzle during a dream sequence.

#7. Zero exploration or collection so far, other than "find crystals to increase your maximum health!" Stuff to find, ledges to climb all glow this amazing flat white that makes them impossible to miss. Of course, so do the giant "PRESS THIS BUTTON TO LOOT THIS THING!" "PRESS BUTTON TO CLIMB" messages. One level boiled down to essentially two gimmicks: combat and walking super slow through the swamp where if you get caught in the "bubbles" you have to do a QTE or lose some life. It took way fucking longer to get through because they chose to split the path a couple ways that all lead to the same place, forcing you to wade back and forth through this stupid muck to see if you missed any life containers (or your bog standard "journal entry" flavor texts.)

#8. This story is, so far, an attempt to flesh out Castlevania with a standard, rather boring fantasy plot line. Something something guy who looks like a Belmont something something MONSTERS IN A VILLAGE something something OH NOES DEY KILL MAH WIFE something something Go Talk to Strange NPC something something Great Darkness something something Prophecy! something something GET THE POWAH TO FIGHT THE DARKNESS SAYS PATRICK STEWART. That's the first hour or two of the game, over 3 or 4 levels. One minute you're in a rained out village at night, the next you're riding through a forest on the back of a talking magical horse you'll never speak to again, the next you're a in swamp. The next you're a in a tropical paradise, which inexplicably gives away to a blizzard. Next you're suddenly in a lush canyon full of waterfalls. It's like someone has a check list of EPIC SCENERY they have to get through before they get down to what the game is actually about. Some games kinda pushed it, it like Curse of Darkness. But this is by far and away the most time I've spent in a Castlevania game without even glimpsing the damn thing.

One of Castlevania's biggest strengths was something something DRACULA, CASTLE, NOW GO! Maybe a setup level (what the village scene is an homage to.) But this game is tediously drawing things out, because they're re-inventing the whole image of the game and feel the need to justify how this is sooooo different than the other games. They've already spun out 3 whole levels that have nothing to do with the castle, and another three await. If they're all linear as they have been so far, I may not get through this one in any decent amount of time.

It kind of hit me when I was fighting this thing that was from Shadow of the Colossus, when I saw snow flakes gently resting on the camera "lens". This is another game that has been turned into a movie. It's a big operatic movie experience with some combat and platforming, and a couple puzzles thrown in.

I'm praying, praying that this has just been the longest tutorial ever and that the game is going to open up, let me explore, let me fight something without having an obligatory cutscene before I fight something again, that I don't have to finish every boss with a QTE or he'll mash my face in for 50% of my life. Just give me the goddamn castle already.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 12:07:15 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

freeformschooler

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (Now on PC)
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2013, 12:00:40 am »

Please do keep us updated. Game looked like a failed 3D transition artifact much like the N64 games.
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Neonivek

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (Now on PC)
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2013, 12:03:48 am »

Quote
I'm praying, praying that this has just been the longest tutorial ever and that the game is going to open up

This is HILLARIOUS for anyone who has actually beat the game or seen the entire game.

I am just going to tell you flat out... NO! you aren't past the tutorial.
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nenjin

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (Now on PC)
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2013, 12:07:59 am »

Quote
I'm praying, praying that this has just been the longest tutorial ever and that the game is going to open up

This is HILLARIOUS for anyone who has actually beat the game or seen the entire game.

I am just going to tell you flat out... NO! you aren't past the tutorial.

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Neonivek

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (Now on PC)
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2013, 12:17:26 am »

Quote
I'm praying, praying that this has just been the longest tutorial ever and that the game is going to open up

This is HILLARIOUS for anyone who has actually beat the game or seen the entire game.

I am just going to tell you flat out... NO! you aren't past the tutorial.

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also the game has not yet begun to be painful to anyone who is a beloved fan of the series.

Just wait for it to stomp on your heart.
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nenjin

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (Now on PC)
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2013, 07:05:11 pm »

Steam says I've put in 4 hours so far but it feels like much longer than that.

So the game has finally "opened up." I air quote that because being linear, it never really quite does. But the mechanics are starting to roll in, and levels blessfully aren't a mess of cutscenes and QTEs anymore, finally giving you some room to move around and do things.

I've hit the point where I can say I'm starting to have fun. The first hour or so of the game leaves you thinking that there's not a lot Gabriel can do, but after Chapter 3 and 4 the gear (chain upgrades, shadow magic badassery that starts infusing parts of your armor and such) options start rolling in. Most stuff has a combat and a puzzle/platforming component. If you've played DMC you're pretty familiar with how it feels, and in truth it's not that far removed from the latter day Castlevania games.

The story does much better when it's delivered less often. The contrast between the first few levels and the rest of the game is pretty striking in this regard. Where before I was feeling smothered by how little control I had and how overbearing the cutscene and QTEs were, now it feels a bit more like what most games do. Which is good because the story isn't anything to write home about (although at least it starts to explain its details a bit more as it goes on.)

Levels are still largely a mash up of platforming with only 1 way to go, gear-based puzzle elements, and fights. The first makes up the majority of a level. Fights are a mix of smaller, man-sized opponents in hordes with the occasional big guy that is way more durable and reactive. There's also a mechanic where you have to beat down and ride different beasts, so you can use their abilities to navigate some terrain obstacles.

Levels are less linear but are still basically "screens" dictated by the fixed camera. It continues to suck because of what it won't show you or let you show yourself. It contributes to annoyances such as not being able to jump off a ledge that is 10 feet above the ground, because the camera says no and it's not a pre-approved place to jump off or climb on to. Considering I was playing Assassin's Creed prior to this, the lack of freedom in moving around the levels (I'm talking just being able to turn and jump off a ledge) is really frustrating. And it sucks all the illusion out of levels being more than a set piece.

There's things you have to return to levels later to get once you have the abilities to do so. It's a nod to the SotN kind of thinking. Unfortunately, it doesn't stack up for several reasons. Firstly, what you're going to return for is a known quantity. Either you missed some life, light magic or shadow magic gems, or you didn't have access to an ability so you could get an upgrade for one your secondary weapons (knives, shadow crystals, fairies, something else.) Secondly, levels aren't really fun to replay, and because they're full of "points of no return" (either due to the camera being an asshole or things like jumping off 100 foot drops) it's a pain in the ass to actually look for the things you missed. At least you get experience for the things you kill, but I'll get to why buying moves isn't really a priority in a minute.

All of this makes anything the playing of anything but combat kind of underwhelming. Although granted, the level design allows for set pieces and the whole freaking thing to look pretty amazing.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's a spectacle, for sure. But it feels stifling and railroad-y. Put it this way. Devil May Cry 4, which does essentially the same thing with its levels, offers way more freedom of movement and the sense you're in control of what you can and can't do.

Combat....I still don't know what to make of it. You get two magic pools for light and shadow magic. When activated, one heals you when you hit guys, one does extra damage when you hit guys. Different upgrades open up different attacks and effects while either magics are active. Additionally, the more you hit guys with a variety of attacks without taking damage, the more "focus" you get. You can also do the "Perfect Block" to get a whole bunch of focus very quickly. When your focus maxes out, every hit makes guys drop magic orbs that you can absorb to refill your magic pools. When guys die, they drop a couple orbs as well. You get secondary weapons (a nod to the knife, axe, cross and other secondary weapons from the other games), that also can do different things with life or shadow magic. One is basically an inverted cross (hits all stuff on the screen for huge damage).....with a pretty fucked up animation. (This game seems to have a bit of a tit fetish.)

On paper combat sounds pretty good. How it's been implemented though leaves somethings to be desired. For one, combat is very fast paced. Little guys will run up and swipe at you, breaking your focus easily. Big guys tend to react almost on a formula of "you hit me three times, I'm going to swing at you." This means you spend a lot of time evasively dodging, making all your longer, bad ass moves and combos inadvisable, since you'll just get knocked on your ass. Second, almost every big guy, from beasts to werewolves to bosses, have an AOE stomp attack that will throw you off your feet, unless you jump right as it goes off. Its range is usually way farther than your dodge goes so you can' roll out of it. And the enemy telegraphs it very briefly before using it. Jumping straight up, in most other cases, is usually a good way to get swatted out of the air. While it's not unavoidable (a quick dodge --> jump can get you out safely depending on the size), there's little warning it's coming.

So combat against bosses and big guys tends to go like this: 3 attacks, dodge, 3 attacks, dodge, 3 attacks, get knocked on your ass. Dodge, dodge, 3 attacks, dodge, ... , turn on Light Magic to get life back. ... turn on Shadow Magic because why not? ..., 3 attacks, dodge, 3 attacks, dodge, QTE, QTE, QTE.....

And that's the super annoying part. Combat, after being really active, ultimately is decided by QTEs, sometimes as many as 5 or 6 in a row for end bosses, that if you fail one you're instantly killed and have to go back to the last "stage" of a boss. Or in the case of big guys, you have to beat them down some more after being taxed 25 to 50% of your health. It can make for some frustration. Plenty of games do this routine, although they tend to save it for the real bosses. Castlevania Lords of Shadow can manage a QTE of some kind every fight.

Combat rewards paying attention and timing, and the move list is pretty extensive. After you start getting new gear, magics, ect.... it reaches the level of "8 different kinds of attacks I can do at the drop of a hat" like DMC. Unfortunately, all of these are crammed on to about 5 buttons. Like activating your Dark Gauntlet is done by holding block and clicking jump, left click or right click each for a different effect. But if you're moving, it turns into a dodge. Holding block is also how you active the Perfect Block, which is different than just tapping block.

So while the enemies and the action are tuned pretty high, demanding specific actions very quickly, your character and the controls aren't necessarily always keeping up. Since everything is basically context sensitive, it becomes hard to remember what "Left click, left click, hold right click" means when you're in the air. Or that left click, hold left click does a completely different move while Light Magic is active versus not. Oh, did I mention there's no thing as locking on to a target either? During boss fights the camera will lock to your boss, but your facing won't. It just contributes to combat being a big sloppy mess most of the time. It makes me think the camera is actually Dracula, and the final fight will be me repeatedly whipping the camera until it shatters and the game ends.
 
Fights aren't hard....but you end up doing the same couple combos over and over again because it's the most efficient way to fight, and in some cases, the only viable one. And again, because all enemies are a source of experience, how many fights you have and how big they are, are pretty tightly controlled. Just when you're starting to feel the combat system shine, get some moves firmly in mind, everything is dead. Or, you're low on life and need to turn on Light Magic and start whipping the shit out of everything with no finesse to get health back. Or you're got focus going and orbs are pouring out of everything.....and as you stop to collect them, some little shit comes at you from your back where the camera isn't letting you look and hits you, and your focus ends. Oh, and did I mention Magic Orbs only stay around for like 15 to 20 seconds, and you have to standing completely still to suck them towards you?

I want to like what's going on here, and at times, I do. If this game has like a battle arena option somewhere, I'll enjoy it. But it feels like it's getting in its own way too often. Too many restrictions and overarching conceits that hamstring its own ability to be fun.

I'm just glad the fucking Titans are supposedly done with. Someone dearly wanted to do what Shadow of the Colossus and other games since have done, and frankly I didn't enjoy the climbing boss fights in SoC very much. There isn't even really a justification in the story for why they are there, they just are and you need to fuck them up. (Which is no great sin in Castlevania, that describes plenty of bosses through the years. But none of those bosses had an entire level dedicated to them, and for a game that seems to care so much about it's story, "activated by Dark Magic" is a pretty thin reason to blatantly insert this kind of gameplay in.)

With all of LoS's issues, the inclusion of these fights just added more frustration. To me there's nothing fun about having 4 seconds to figure out where to go/what to do, before being smacked off and having to repeat a stupid series of QTEs so I can climb back up and do it again. 

I'll probably keep playing this one through, as it is actually a fairly meaty game and has continued to expand as I play, sort of surprising me (although I think maybe it's about to taper off). I feel like I've been playing way longer than what Steam says.

If you really, dearly love Castlevania, consider what your like of it is based on. Because there's lots of things Lords of Shadow does that are in the opposite direction. There are hints of the game eventually delivering the things most fans expect: the openness, the heavy emphasis on the gothic look, from the environments to the enemies. (I haven't seen a single fucking bat, skeleton or zombie yet. Just Goblins and Trolls and Giant Spiders and Faeries and all the shit you expect out of a fantasy RPG. If it weren't for the "Lycans" and Werewolves, you would be hard pressed to call anything in this game gothic. All of Chapter 2, 3 and some of 4 take place in some sort of weird non-European tropical ruin.)

Castlevania Lords of Shadow has other ideas, other things it wants to do first. If you lack the patience for that, or if you're a Bayonetta/DMC/Ect... aficionado, this game can and will piss you off. If this is your first introduction to either Castlevania or games of this nature, you might find a lot to like. But if you've played a lot of these games, and a lot of Castlevania, certain things are going to stick out like a sore thumb, repeatedly jabbing you in the eye, throughout game.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 07:39:47 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti