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Author Topic: Crusader Kings 2 is released.  (Read 2119862 times)

hector13

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13185 on: April 08, 2018, 05:34:44 pm »

Oftentimes you’ll be faced with “you can only join when pressing their claims outside the realm” of somesuch.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13186 on: April 08, 2018, 06:16:18 pm »

It's worth noting that your vassals expanding their base of power outside of your realm isn't always a good thing. If it goes unchecked, they could establish an empire all their own, right from underneath your nose...
That's all according to plan if they're all of your dynasty. Like cancerous tumours splitting off to go continue making dynastic colonies elsewhere - it also allows them to adapt to the local culture and religion where the main dynastic line might not be able to, spreading your dynasty farther afield and into more titles

Cruxador

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13187 on: April 08, 2018, 06:41:00 pm »

It's worth noting that your vassals expanding their base of power outside of your realm isn't always a good thing. If it goes unchecked, they could establish an empire all their own, right from underneath your nose...
That's all according to plan if they're all of your dynasty. Like cancerous tumours splitting off to go continue making dynastic colonies elsewhere - it also allows them to adapt to the local culture and religion where the main dynastic line might not be able to, spreading your dynasty farther afield and into more titles
Less so when they revolt and gain independence. Even further less so when you die and they gain a claim on your empire, push it, and conquer everything that you once were.
Seniority succession.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13188 on: April 08, 2018, 07:05:00 pm »

Less so when they revolt and gain independence. Even further less so when you die and they gain a claim on your empire, push it, and conquer everything that you once were.
I actually prefer giving them independence, whether by gavelkind or grant. If you fear them claiming your Empire, breeding kin who are too far down the line of succession to even get a weak claim is pretty easy, while for the most part you don't have to worry about a younger Empire led by a ruler of the same dynasty as you, especially if you join their wars and very easily get to 100 opinion. Having dynasty members of yours breakaway to found their own Empires in other lands is not only a legit strategy, it's bloody fun as all hell and very helpful to you.

*As mentioned before, breakaway dynasties can adopt the local culture and religion, allowing them to expand into new culture groups without antagonizing the local nobility and peasantry at all.
*They provide a useful buffer zone against enemy powers, as forming non-aggression pacts and alliances with them is very easy to do.
*They can often help establish your dynasty, culture and religion in an area where you might want to take it at some future date, getting claimants from them is pretty easy most of the time.
*Once you're done securing all of your borders with friendly dynastic border states, you can let them spend their money and heirs on wars while you econ and tech up, building out all your realms and maxing legalism/majesty.

But by far the biggest benefit is house prestige. For every title every member of your house has held, the house prestige increases. Subsequently every child born of that dynasty inherits some of that prestige. Yet in player hands, the player tends to desire greater personal power and central control over the dynasty, with as few successions as possible. Yet with multiple counties, duchies, kingdoms and empires all with their own multiple successions - the prestige of the house blows up immensely. The increased prestige subsequently makes all members of your family immensely desirable in marriages for prestige purposes, as well as in selections for holy orders and religious head elections. This can eventually reach a tipping point where the innumerable AI dynastic lines of your house begin taking over everything, because no one wants to stop marrying them, no one wants to stop electing them, and there are far too many to kill them all.
This increases your score and if you ever want to unite the family into one world monarchy, as opposed to several disparate ones, you need only collect claimants or use ultimogeniture.

Alternative scenario- they remain your vassal, but support in a revolt a claimant not of your dynasty's claim to the throne (why the AI would act against their interests, I do not know, but I've seen it enough to know that they do). Same outcome, effectively.
Usually when the AI does this, it's because they owed a favour to the claimant and got pulled into the faction unwillingly, or got pulled in through some intrigue. And while this is a terrible situation, it's not one unique to the strat, and can happen with all strategies. It is also mitigated with the elimination of such claimants (whether by assassination or imprisonment, or the deliberate triggering of a rebellion when you have your mercs/guard sitting on their capital), to such an extent that you have all outcomes secured (within a reasonable extent. Sometimes bad luck simply happens). But if you get to the point where other members of your line are spreading their Empires throughout the world, there is nothing to fear, even if you end up as an exiled Icelanding count, your house prestige will continue accruing you more score while you reconsolidate the family on the ground level.

pisskop

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13189 on: April 08, 2018, 07:35:21 pm »

It's worth noting that your vassals expanding their base of power outside of your realm isn't always a good thing. If it goes unchecked, they could establish an empire all their own, right from underneath your nose...
Revoke their top tier title and hand it to a new (loyal vassal within that realm.  You keep all external gains that hold no de jure land and you get a loyal vassal between you and that super pissed rebel
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smjjames

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13190 on: April 08, 2018, 07:39:34 pm »

It would be cool if there were more storylines based on real history, like the Charlemagne one. Been starting trying out that one. Decided to start that over when I was trying to kill his heir, then the sudden death of Charlemagnes brother kicked in and then the kid became my heir because the other son was a bastard child. Wouldn't have been a problem if the plot hadn't been revealed earlier and getting a huge opinion hit on the kid.

Also, there is a choice to make Pepin the Hunchback (as he was called) a legitimate heir, but I'm not sure if the bastard status was applied later on in his life in real history or if it was there from the start.

Theres also this wierd guy who has claim on the kingdom as a pretender, but his heritage is a completely different king of the same west francia and he's the (adopted?) son of a vassal of mine.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13191 on: April 08, 2018, 08:00:31 pm »

It would be cool if there were more storylines based on real history, like the Charlemagne one. Been starting trying out that one. Decided to start that over when I was trying to kill his heir, then the sudden death of Charlemagnes brother kicked in and then the kid became my heir because the other son was a bastard child. Wouldn't have been a problem if the plot hadn't been revealed earlier and getting a huge opinion hit on the kid.

Also, there is a choice to make Pepin the Hunchback (as he was called) a legitimate heir, but I'm not sure if the bastard status was applied later on in his life in real history or if it was there from the start.

Theres also this wierd guy who has claim on the kingdom as a pretender, but his heritage is a completely different king of the same west francia and he's the (adopted?) son of a vassal of mine.
The Ottoman-Byzantine wars and 1066 are pretty fun bookmarks if people haven't tried them. I've also realized that whenever I do Mongols, it is physically impossible for me to resist creating an independent Finngol Khanate in the West

misko27

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13192 on: April 08, 2018, 08:41:11 pm »

It's worth noting that your vassals expanding their base of power outside of your realm isn't always a good thing. If it goes unchecked, they could establish an empire all their own, right from underneath your nose...
Revoke their top tier title and hand it to a new (loyal vassal within that realm.  You keep all external gains that hold no de jure land and you get a loyal vassal between you and that super pissed rebel
Actually, this gives me an answer to a problem I've had: my Merchant Republic Vassal keeps expanding into Sweden where I'd rather he didn't expand (I have no strong affection for the Swedes, I'm just border-conscious).
Not really.... You can go pretty dang far from history, even in EUIV.
I'm not saying that you can't. I'm saying the game tends to look reasonably like history.

In CK2, beyond some consistent ahistoricity like Italians always conquering North Africa, it looks reasonably enough like history that I don't think most would notice.
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smjjames

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13193 on: April 08, 2018, 09:45:15 pm »

The heck are raiders from Central Russia east of the Ural mountains doing all the way over at the coast of France?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know it's ahistorical, but I still expect at least some realism. I'd expect raiders from Central Asia in Eastern Europe, not in France.

I've also twice gotten exotic traders from 'Hindustan' who brought Ethopian eunuchs.

edit: And those raiders went off into someone elses territory. Not my problem now.

Also, how do I deal with this guy who keeps generating strong threat and then a revolt for Charlemagne?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I figure I maybe should be taking care of him earlier, but still, how in general do I deal with it?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 10:45:31 pm by smjjames »
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hector13

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13194 on: April 08, 2018, 10:56:49 pm »

Pretty much the usual for CKII: make him like you or murder him.

Unless you need them elsewhere, camping your chancellor on him with the improve ruler relations mission task thing will probably keep him with high enough opinion that he shouldn’t be an issue. -11 opinion isn’t a bad starting point for that, since it’s a stackable +20 for each success, and a failure usually affects one of the barons in the county rather than the owner.

Failing that, trying to get a reason to imprison him and revoke a title or two is also an option, though challenging if you really don’t want the intrigue focus, or don’t have the DLC.

Maybe get your spymaster to get him to pledge not being in a faction via scheming, though that one can backfire unpleasantly.

I did just notice some of those factions have nearly 200% power. I foresee demands.
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smjjames

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13195 on: April 08, 2018, 11:08:46 pm »

I executed charm offensive, it was super effective. Set my focus to carousing, sent the guy a gift previously, and invited him over for a beer. Fast became friends.

How exactly do you camp an advisor on a specific person or province? I never figured that out from the special learning scenario.
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Reudh

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13196 on: April 09, 2018, 01:40:50 am »

You also appear to be over your vassal limit, which causes some pretty sizable friction. Either move counts/barons directly under you to a duke, or make them independent. It's very difficult to maintain a stable empire while you're over your vassal limit.

pisskop

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13197 on: April 09, 2018, 06:08:33 am »

Make some duchies and hand them out.  try not to let them gain too much power near non-same religion countries.
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gomez

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13198 on: April 09, 2018, 06:18:53 am »

I might be imagining things but the font in the popup looks nicer and clearer then when I play. Are you using some kind of text mod?
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scriver

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13199 on: April 09, 2018, 06:36:25 am »

How exactly do you camp an advisor on a specific person or province? I never figured that out from the special learning scenario.

You can't camp advisors on unlanded people, hector thought you were speaking about one of the faction members or leader, not the pretender (Let me guess, it's the Merovingian, right? He's the last heir of the original Frankish kingsline). The faction members generate threat based on military strength, so it's them you need to target with diplomatic action. The pretender does not himself have a say in what the faction that supports him does, so making him like you is not necessary (although moving him to your court likely ups your chances of assassinating him...).

Anyway, to target a specific landed person, you go to the Council tab, then click the sub-menu the furthest to the left (I don't remember the specific name). Below the entry for each advisor there should be three (or four, depending on DLC) job buttons. For the Diplomacy Advisor for example there is the "Fabricate Claim" job, the "Make a ruler like me" job, and the "Make a ruler's vassal dislike him" job. You choose the job you want and then select the province you want them to work in.

For countering factions there are two jobs that are relevant - the above Diplomacy job, for example. Rulers who like you join factions a lot less. There's also a Spymaster job which you can use to target vassals and discourage them from joining factions.
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