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[Descan]

an exploit
[...]
wouldn't actually gain troops or have any real use for the land

Then how is it an exploit, exactly? I mean, sure. You don't need to have a vassal controlling it and being a thorn. You also deprive your enemies of the land. And you can pillage the land for the cash.

But after that, with no use for the land or direct gain out of it, I wouldn't really call it an exploit necessarily... A bug, sure; while genociding all the people in a land and settling in your own could be a gameplay mechanic (and, in a way it is, with the steward settling your own people in a land) I don't think that this is exactly how Paradox intended such a thing to look like. (Though admittedly, if they ever add in something like that, the patch notes would be a fun read. "You can now commit genocide as a tribal ruler!" Ehhh. Heh.)

And it's even an exploit-able bug in certain circumstances, like aforementioned culture-switching. But I tend to reserve "exploit" for things that very directly a) aren't intended, and b) give you an unfair advantage. Whether they're bugs or not. Like, before the patched in the limit to theo/MR vassals, it was an exploit to be able to make ALL your vassals theocracies who would be more or less content for all time, and/or merchant republics on all your coasts to give you All The Cash Forever.

But clearing land into Nomadic-style holdings isn't really much of an advantage, since unlike Nomads you don't get anything from the holding slots in terms of population -> troops, unless you actually have a tribe in that province. Pretty much the only "clear advantage" you get from it is the culture/religion switch, and depriving your enemies; Even without needing to care about the vassals, you also don't get any troops or cash from the vassal there either. And if you DO want to get anything out of the land, it'll take a lot of cash and prestige to make it functional again.

[umiman]

A few years has passed since what I posted last.

In around 10 years, I changed rulers three times. The original guy died in glorious battle against Tibet. Then all my forces routed for about a year and I disbanded everything. My hope was Tibet would focus on recapturing their lands then going off to put out the myriad of rebellions and their failed holy war. That's precisely what they did, so my new ruler came back with replenished troops, debts repaid, and swept through the lands in a blitzkreig.

He led the charge personally, and for his efforts he lost his face, his hand, and another hand later in battle. In trying to treat him, he gained an infection and became insane. Somehow he survived all this, and went on to complete a study on the universe (while still leading the battle from the front) to become known as "the Scholar". He finished the campaign and left victorious, if many kilograms lighter. Also insane.

Then there was a bandit event and he went to deal with it himself. This completely failed and he ended up surrounded by bandits. His only option, I shit you not, was "INITIATE A DANCE OFF" because he was a lunatic.

It didn't work and he died.

So now I'm his 9 year old son. Zheng Zhengyi III (I'm making good use of that 'name after father' button). Putting out rebellions left and right. I've been roleplaying as an Imperial Han after all, so I gave all my land to every single relative I could find. This... isn't very wise and now I'm reaping the results. When I thought stuff was finally under control, I tried to launch a new Southern campaign only to find out apparently a peace deal with China doesn't mean jack shit. China is invading me again.

I tried to do a repeat of the miracle we had back in my... uhh.... great great grandfather's day where we beat them 6k men to 12k. It didn't work. I had 10k and lost. Probably because my generals this time were fat and lazy as opposed to being loaned Chinese super generals.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Halp.

[Loud Whispers]

I hope you're good at kowtowing

[Lukewarm]

I'm irritated.
The Albanian Insurrection, courtesy of some profiteering from that time everyone in Armenia bar the Sultan revolted, is a major power in the small country, and I decide that the first step to stealing my liege's title is to fight my way to independence from a duke and become a top-level vassal.
I win the independence war against the duke, and my liege is now the sultan.
The very same day that I win, the Sultan reassigns me to the guy who I just defeated for independence, because he owns the duchy that I'm trying to steal, and I can't start any wars to steal his titles in the duchy.

[Ehndras]

Bug, or clever political tactic?

[hector13]

That’s what I would do in the Sultan’s position. There’s a reason he’s a duke, and a reason he has those vassals.

[Rolan7]

Except that it means there's no way to rebel from the Sultanate (if you wanted to do that) since you're only his direct vassal for an instant.  Also, it's nonsense to win a war and have it instantly reversed by decree - the point of casus belli is that you've proven some point.

Rebelling as a count should probably grant you at least some time as the king's direct vassal.  You just rejected lesser authority by force of arms, after all.

And frankly the duke should suffer a significant opinion penalty with the king for failing in their duties, making it the king's problem.  Failing the feudal contract.
Even though the king technically benefits, gaining direct control/income over a vassal, but also demanding their precious attention (and wasting the land's soldiers and holdings in internal war).

[hector13]

That is a fair point.

In saying that, though, you as the rebel would've failed in the feudal contract too, seeing as you've just caned your liege. I don't think that the new liege would be particularly amenable in those circumstances, unless there was some collusion.

[Rolan7]

Heh true, the liege should naturally be upset with both parties for escalating the situation.

[Tawa]

In those sorts of situations, the go-to strategy for me is to use the usurp title plot to take my liege's title, if I'm their de jure vassal.

Otherwise, I try to get enough land and cash to form a duchy immediately, then rebel.

[Ehndras]

Huh. Wait, so you rebelled but... Because vassal of your liege? What? Only way I know how to rebel is to become 100% independent.

[umiman]

Huh. Wait, so you rebelled but... Because vassal of your liege? What? Only way I know how to rebel is to become 100% independent.

Each time you rebel, you rebel against your current liege.

So let's say you're in an empire. If you're a count under a duke, you would rebel first against your duke. This would put you under the control of whoever is the liege of the duke, be it a king or the emperor. If it's a king, then you have to rebel against the king next. After that you rebel against the emperor and then you become 100% independent.

[Ehndras]

Well... That's stupid. So why do my independence factions suddenly a new nation/scattered territories?

[Teneb]

Well... That's stupid. So why do my independence factions suddenly a new nation/scattered territories?

Because they're factions against the top liege.

[Loud Whispers]

Well... That's stupid.

Yes... And no. It's stupid in that yes, it is very stupid, but it cleverly resembles human stupid. Clever in that you can do some clever things with it, gaining power within a realm without being without the external protection afforded by the King, and often I have had some great fun as a count - declaring war on a Duke, to place myself on the same de-facto rank as the Duke and a direct vassal of the King, with which to gain access to the King's council and eventually overcome the Duke de jure with the King's tacit support.