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[scriver]

But I bet there are some people who might not be all too happy about this.

I might not be all too happy about this.

Seems like a silly compromisole between what the fans want and performance.

Except neither the fans nor the nonfan players wanted China to be added.

I think the biggest problem with adding China was forcing yet another, particularly unique, type of government into CK2's framework.  I understand why they'd put it offscreen like this.

No, the biggest problem by far would be performance stemming from the characters and provinces added.

Overall I think I'm as happy as I could be with this idea. It will be fun playing as the Protectorate General and conquering the world fir the glory of the Middle Kingdom (I assume it will be playable. If it isn't I will be pissed) or trying to get your own dynasty on the Imperial Throne, even if you can't do a Mongol and conquer it outright.

It would also be fun if they added similar diplomacy screen for the other just-off-the-charts areas, like say one for South-East Asia and the Archipelago Realms, one for East Siberia/Northernmost Asia, and of course also one each for west- and east-coast Africa below the cut off line (and maybe America once the Sunset Invasion starts if you have that DLC?). South-East Asia and East Africa in particular would be interesting as they were important nodes on the oceanic trade network and could give you trade income bonuses and such (or the opposite if you have bad relations with the area and your enemy asks them to boycott you). Of course these areas wasn't united in the sense Imperial China was but I feel a gestalt identity would be an okay compromise for the sake of gameplay.

Lastly, I really hope the stability of China, however little they might portray it, has an effect on the Silk Road system.

[Tawa]

I'm very happy with this compromise. Not only does it put China in the game without giving a performance hit, it solves the problems of potential Western European interference (e.g Dragon Emperor d'Bourbon, Kaiser Wilhelm's War to make Dragon Emperor Li Pay Tribute) and lets the game handle aspects of Chinese influence that normal game mechanics wouldn't cover.

Plus, Chinese portraits and presumably culture. And the Protector-General ought to be pretty interesting--IIRC, there are multiple starts (including 1066) where he'll be on the map already.

I wonder how Genghis will be represented, though. Considering that he conquered China and all.

[scriver]

I just noticed that it seems to already be on the map in the picture above: the yellow stripe on the east is called Western Protectorate.

Also if you look at the red coloured realm south of the Protectorate it has a Chinese Dragon on it's weapon. It doesn't look like the name of it says anything like any name for China I know about and I know they added a bunch of new Himalayan states for the next version so it probably isnt Imperial China but still, I thought I'd point it out

[Descan]

Nah, I like this. Now I just want them to fix the Sahelian kingdoms, adding in some empty provinces you can "colonize" through a "colony" settlement that acts like tribes do with regards to turning Feudal (so particularly powerful African kingdoms can expand and connect the east and west and to the coasts, with some modifiers and events to basically kill any european that tries to colonize the area to showcase the malaria and shit)

And add in Vinland with the same thing

and I'd be pretty happy with the map.

I guess they could also add in Indochina and the Indonesian islands?

[Ultimuh]

You know what the game needs? Aboriginal Invasion.
Where the aboriginal Australians establish their own empire and invades through those Indonesian islands Descan mentioned.

This idea cannot fail!






ᵉᵈᶦᵗ: ʸᵒᵘ ᵍᵘʸˢ ʳᵉᵃˡᶦᶻᵉ ᴵ ᵃᵐ ʲᵉˢᵗᶦⁿᵍ, ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ?

[Loud Whispers]

Nah, I like this. Now I just want them to fix the Sahelian kingdoms, adding in some empty provinces you can "colonize" through a "colony" settlement that acts like tribes do with regards to turning Feudal (so particularly powerful African kingdoms can expand and connect the east and west and to the coasts, with some modifiers and events to basically kill any european that tries to colonize the area to showcase the malaria and shit)

And add in Vinland with the same thing

and I'd be pretty happy with the map.

I guess they could also add in Indochina and the Indonesian islands?

inb4 ck2 becomes portugal kings simulator

[Descan]

I'm just considering places that were Feudal (to a degree) or could have been controlled by feudal lords.

[Ultimuh]

I'm just considering places that were Feudal (to a degree) or could have been controlled by feudal lords.

Feudal Japan for CK2 confirmed! ( Or not. :p )

[scriver]

And add in Vinland with the same thing

and I'd be pretty happy with the map.

I guess they could also add in Indochina and the Indonesian islands?

...And then we run into the same problem with performance as we would with China

[umiman]

I'm just considering places that were Feudal (to a degree) or could have been controlled by feudal lords.

Feudal Japan for CK2 confirmed! ( Or not. :p )

I know you're joking but during CK2's timeframe, Japan was going through the Heian period.

Aka, ridiculously outdated.

They were only just getting to grips to real warfare and had only just started developing the Samurai class. Not to mention at this point in time, they really didn't know how to professionally levy troops or conscript forces. It would be centuries from this point before warfare for the Japanese meant anything other than rural battles and small scale skirmishes with only 1v1 battles. Seriously, their wars at that point in time was just one clan of a hundred or so fighting another clan of a hundred or so.

At this point in time, Japan as an international force was probably on the same level as Mali or tribal Ireland.

It... Would be fun to play though. During this time period, Japan only just started getting to grips with true Imperial politics. Too bad the Sengoku game sucks.

[ZeroGravitas]

I'm just considering places that were Feudal (to a degree) or could have been controlled by feudal lords.

Feudal Japan for CK2 confirmed! ( Or not. :p )

I know you're joking but during CK2's timeframe, Japan was going through the Heian period.

Aka, ridiculously outdated.

They were only just getting to grips to real warfare and had only just started developing the Samurai class. Not to mention at this point in time, they really didn't know how to professionally levy troops or conscript forces. It would be centuries from this point before warfare for the Japanese meant anything other than rural battles and small scale skirmishes with only 1v1 battles. Seriously, their wars at that point in time was just one clan of a hundred or so fighting another clan of a hundred or so.

At this point in time, Japan as an international force was probably on the same level as Mali or tribal Ireland.

It... Would be fun to play though. During this time period, Japan only just started getting to grips with true Imperial politics. Too bad the Sengoku game sucks.

To be fair, similar objections can (and have been made) about extending the timeline back to 769. Even basic CK2 mechanics like heritable counties and duchies didn't exist until the late Carolingian period. Having de jure kingdoms/duchies laid out and de jure claims based on feudal hierarchies is completely absurd before the 10th or 11th centuries.

Having 11th/12th-century mechanics and de jure border control with an 8th/9th century setting is pretty much par for the course in CK2. Might as well treat Japan the same way.

[pisskop]

I dont see why you cant track dynasty's though.

They need to find a way to lead a dynasty/inherit an avatar (because you dont always play the leading branch of a dynasty) without a gameover.

Thats certainly doable.  And you dont even need to go hogwild and make all sorts of shenanigans like adventuring avatars or made-up claims with 40k hosts fighting over a patch of land worth 10k men.

The inheritance isnt the game, though its often played like it is.



Just make it possible to either also focus upon a government type (and swap to a prominent dynasty when appropriate) or do some hoodwinking and have a prepared dynasty emerge with some kind of power.

The power to command soldiers and collect tithe is really all landholding in ckii is.


---

Can I be the pope now please?  Or a holy order?

[Descan]

I mean, theocratic dynasties would be interesting. It wouldn't so much be blood as it would be ideas; You'd get children given to convents and nunneries by nobles, second sons and daughters, and instead of being related to you by blood, they'd be related to you by school, as they're educated by the convent.

Or something like that.

[umiman]

I'm just considering places that were Feudal (to a degree) or could have been controlled by feudal lords.

Feudal Japan for CK2 confirmed! ( Or not. :p )

I know you're joking but during CK2's timeframe, Japan was going through the Heian period.

Aka, ridiculously outdated.

They were only just getting to grips to real warfare and had only just started developing the Samurai class. Not to mention at this point in time, they really didn't know how to professionally levy troops or conscript forces. It would be centuries from this point before warfare for the Japanese meant anything other than rural battles and small scale skirmishes with only 1v1 battles. Seriously, their wars at that point in time was just one clan of a hundred or so fighting another clan of a hundred or so.

At this point in time, Japan as an international force was probably on the same level as Mali or tribal Ireland.

It... Would be fun to play though. During this time period, Japan only just started getting to grips with true Imperial politics. Too bad the Sengoku game sucks.

To be fair, similar objections can (and have been made) about extending the timeline back to 769. Even basic CK2 mechanics like heritable counties and duchies didn't exist until the late Carolingian period. Having de jure kingdoms/duchies laid out and de jure claims based on feudal hierarchies is completely absurd before the 10th or 11th centuries.

Having 11th/12th-century mechanics and de jure border control with an 8th/9th century setting is pretty much par for the course in CK2. Might as well treat Japan the same way.

I keep forgetting that the start date for CK2 isn't 1066 any more.

I can't even imagine what a CK2-style game set in Japan in 769 would even be like.

It'd be... like... tribes of villages making pottery or something.

[scriver]

Soooo... pretty much most of Europe in 769?