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[Greenbane]

I haven't purchased the DLC yet, but the question is, why aren't the templar-like orders part of this whole new system? The only answer I can think of is that perhaps they weren't quite secret societies at the time, more like overt military orders which didn't care much about cloak and dagger stuff (yet). But even then it's strange that they wouldn't make the system compatible with them, considering they're one of the aspects of the game which hasn't been expanded upon in the eleventibillion DLCs released so far.

It's a bit of a poor time period to pick for secret societies, given you can't have other, more famous later ones like the Freemasons.

[Grim Portent]

The societies are primarily monastic in nature, rather than militant. Indeed the only 'military' one is the Hashashin with it's assassination missions, but I don't think the society is linked to the Shia Holy Order in game.

They also aren't even secret for the most part, anyone can look at the Benedictine order of monks and see who's in it, and anyone can join or leave as they wish. Only the demon worshipers, assassins and such are secret.

There is the interesting quirk of hidden faiths and other traits that are now kept invisible from the world at large. I'm pretty sure a former norse pagan vassal of mine had secretly kept his old faith and joined the Hel Cult, because he got outed as a demon worshiper but wasn't part of the satanist society. I abducted him and sacrificed him to Satan, because why not.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Here's the challenge again:

The Bay 12 Frisia Challenge
Starting as the Duke of Holland on September 15, 1066, you must form an independent Kingdom of Frisia as soon as you can without cheating, then play to the Crusader Kings II end date.  The victor of this challenge will be determined by who has the most amount of de jure land within the Kingdom at that date.  You can only control territory outside your de jure borders equal to the number of counties immediately bordering your territory.  The maximum distance away for your de jure land is a single dutchy connected by land or a dutchy across a single sea zone.  Any land gained beyond this needing to be made independent.  If a vassal expands beyond this limit, then you may keep them, but you cannot form vassals with territory beyond this limit and any vassals that do not have any land in de jure Frisia must be declared independent.  All options are to be kept to the default settings except for enabling Ironman, and any DLC combination is allowed.

Did have one minor thought of an edit we could do.  We make a singular Ruler Designer character that everyone uses, of the Miroslav dynasty.  See who can bring it the most glory in their world with this challenge.  We shouldn't make the trait combination too overpowered, though.

[scrdest]

I haven't purchased the DLC yet, but the question is, why aren't the templar-like orders part of this whole new system? The only answer I can think of is that perhaps they weren't quite secret societies at the time, more like overt military orders which didn't care much about cloak and dagger stuff (yet). But even then it's strange that they wouldn't make the system compatible with them, considering they're one of the aspects of the game which hasn't been expanded upon in the eleventibillion DLCs released so far.

It's a bit of a poor time period to pick for secret societies, given you can't have other, more famous later ones like the Freemasons.

The answer is simple.

They didn't have time.

Straight from the Q&A, they had that in mind, it just didn't make the cut currently.

Also bear in mind the huuuuuge thing about the features added is modding support - a large portion of the Big Honking Mods jury-rigged societies (and items), this allows a cleaner integration. Hell, one of my first thoughts was that someone's gonna mod in Illuminati for the modern mod I've seen on the Workshop - I've probably seen too much Deus Ex lately.

[misko27]

That was what I was afraid of. Reviews of the non-satanism (and non-hermetics) societies have been mixed.

Heh, you've discounted roughly 50% of societies, so I'd say it comes up pretty decent on the whole

I'll put my point differently: If you aren't interested in the supernatural, this update is pretty boring. The fact that 50% of societies (which is not actually true: there are the Dominicans, the Benedictines, the Assassins, and secret religious cults) are supernatural is my problem. It's not 50% of the societies which are supernatural, it's 50% of the content. My problem is precisely that if the supernatural is boring to me, this update is thus boring, because it's otherwise just a $15 mod-tools update. If the Supernatural is not boring for you, then you know, good for you! No reason we can't feel differently. But that doesn't mean that I can't be disappointed.

My particular objection, and why I don't like this type of supernatural, is that it seems like Satanism is the sort of supernatural that happens consistently every game. It's not like "oh look, I have the opportunity to join a secretive cult", it's like "Oh, Satanists. Again. " no matter whether you are muslim, catholic, orthodox, even zoroastrians have it (or a version of it for Norse or Hindus). It seems like if I don't want to play as Satanists they are just a perpetual nuisance unless I disable them entirely; in which case why spend 15 dollars on this?

I just feel like I should have thought about this in terms of Sunset Invasion instead of as a must-buy, but I wasn't really thinking. I mean it's not the end of the world, $15 dollars is pretty small. But yes, I do feel disappointed even if I am a minority. And if Satanism is not your thing I would strongly suggest waiting for a sale, because the mods will take time to create anyway. The best part of the Update is the UI changes anyway.

The normal societies are mostly just a way to get a small relationship boost with some other characters, fish for good traits and get some prestige and piety.There's not really much else they could have been.

I think that's not true. There's no mechanism for heresy societies, for example, even though the system seems to call out for it. It's particularly weird because I have observed people who were secretly Catholic under a Cathar ruler, but there's no way to have secret Cathars, which is definitely a missed opportunity. Is it even possible to have secret heretics with the current mechanics? I don't think so, but I'd like to be wrong.

[Teneb]

Re: Monks & Mystics + Mods. The society framework and inventory system is actually free. Only the societies made by Paradox are paid. So you don't need the DLC to use modded societies.

[scrdest]

Re: Monks & Mystics + Mods. The society framework and inventory system is actually free. Only the societies made by Paradox are paid. So you don't need the DLC to use modded societies.

Ayup; that's actually why I didn't count the secret religion societies either, they're included for free as well according to the changelog. Though for some reason some of the UI changes apparently aren't. vOv

@Misko - AFAIK the Assassins aren't terribly badly received either, the only issue for me is... well, they're Islamic, and I have yet to really delve into that; it's only monks, Dominicans in particular considering their flavor text feeling distinctly unfinished. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if someone at Paradox is gonna get slapped on the noggin and made to patch Dominicans into an actual Inquisitioney force rather than objectively inferior Benedictines.

E: Gonna run MP this time. Gonna set the pass to armok.
E^2: Up.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

E: Gonna run MP this time. Gonna set the pass to armok.
E^2: Up.

Name and password to the game?

[scrdest]

E: Gonna run MP this time. Gonna set the pass to armok.
E^2: Up.

Name and password to the game?

Name is B12Urist
Pass is... re-read the post you quoted :^)

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

E: Gonna run MP this time. Gonna set the pass to armok.
E^2: Up.

Name and password to the game?

Name is B12Urist
Pass is... re-read the post you quoted :^)

I see I missed it.  What's the server ID?  It isn't listing for me for some reason.

[scrdest]

E: Gonna run MP this time. Gonna set the pass to armok.
E^2: Up.

Name and password to the game?

Name is B12Urist
Pass is... re-read the post you quoted :^)

I see I missed it.  What's the server ID?  It isn't listing for me for some reason.

90107320391175173

E: I'M AN IDIOT WHO DIDN'T SET UP PORT FORWARDING.

[JimboM12]

If I don't read a post where someone started a satanic cult dedicated to greed and Armok, and invite everyone to join them (by simple invite or FORCE), I will be sorely disappointed.

Just bought the DLC from GMG for 12 bucks or so alongside my pre-purchase for Mass Effect Andromeda.

On-topic: I plan on doing a nice brotherhood of Christ run to test some of the features for kingdom unity when I can update on steam. Internet's spotty. Then, my son will create a lust cult and destroy all I have worked to build.

Off-topic: Going to play Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer soon. Get hype for Andromeda. Less then 50 bucks on GMG for members. get hype.

[Teneb]

Here's pretty much the rundown of the (paid) societies:

Satanists: Super easy way to be functionally immortal, make everyone like you, and never get caught unless you spam powers.
Hermeticists: The strongest of them all, surprisingly. You get tons of tech, attribute points, buff your heirs, and stack artifacts until you are sick of them.
Monks: You get birth control (celibacy), piety, get rid of bad traits and cheap temples (that you can pair with tax-shifted laws for loadsa money).

EDIT: Haven't messed with assassins yet, so I can't give an opinion on them.

[Tawa]

Does anybody feel like it's way too easy to join the societies? I feel like there should be stricter requirements for Satanist than "has any single one of the extremely common Seven Sins", for example, and something more special than 10 learning for joining the Hermetics.

Anyway, once I've gotten my fill of satanism and alchemy, I think I'm going to try to run an LP on the forum. Any suggestions for interesting areas? I can play anybody but Indians and Jews (and I don't have Horse Lords, so the Mongols are tribal rather than nomadic.)

By the way, for those of you who were disappointed by the fact that Anglos, Saxons, and Frisians don't have their own portraits, there's an ironman-compatible mod on the Workshop that applies the German portraits to these groups. You seem to need the Early Western Clothing pack for it, though.

[scrdest]

Welp, death happened, will put it back up from save.

E: Back up, same pass, 90107321765851143