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[Toaster]

Running Africa as a giant merchant republic sounds like a interesting goal.  I might have to give that a swing once I feel brave enough for a non-standard start.

[Rolan7]

I did that too (also as House Cisse of Mali!) and it was great fun!  Like RedKing pointed out, great income and great numbers of progeny due to concubinage.  Being able to raid is sooo helpful.

The only downside I recall is only ever having one mercenary group (and one holy order).  Can't move your capital as a republic, and its location determines available mercenaries as I understand.   On the plus side, the Ghanan band was basically part of my standing army.

[RedKing]

Yep, but whereas mercs are usually the lifeblood of a Republic, the fact that you have to grow so damn big before establishing the Republic (due to needing a coastal city in Mauretania for a capital, AND needing to reform West African religion [although I saw one AAR where they became early Cathars instead]) means that your native armies are pretty damn impressive.

And although you face some doomstacks from the Umayyads and Mulhabbids (and ocassionally their Abbasid allies) early on, if you play it right you lure them deep into your territory and let attrition wreak havoc. Russia has General Winter, Mali has General Jungle.

And at least in my game, the holy order is pretty beefy (about 8-9K). That helped a lot in fending off Muslim holy wars, at least until I had an Empire title. After that, no one has been a credible threat.

I kinda don't want to mess with Europe, just let it evolve as it will, and build up Malinese Africa to export to EU IV, then conquer the entire continent of Africa. Maybe I'll turn on Sunset Invasion to give myself a late-game challenge and make EU IV a bit tougher because the Americas will have High American tech group, whereas I think the very highest Mali will get is Eastern tech group, if not Muslim.

[Teneb]

Yep, but whereas mercs are usually the lifeblood of a Republic, the fact that you have to grow so damn big before establishing the Republic (due to needing a coastal city in Mauretania for a capital, AND needing to reform West African religion [although I saw one AAR where they became early Cathars instead]) means that your native armies are pretty damn impressive.

And although you face some doomstacks from the Umayyads and Mulhabbids (and ocassionally their Abbasid allies) early on, if you play it right you lure them deep into your territory and let attrition wreak havoc. Russia has General Winter, Mali has General Jungle.

And at least in my game, the holy order is pretty beefy (about 8-9K). That helped a lot in fending off Muslim holy wars, at least until I had an Empire title. After that, no one has been a credible threat.

I kinda don't want to mess with Europe, just let it evolve as it will, and build up Malinese Africa to export to EU IV, then conquer the entire continent of Africa. Maybe I'll turn on Sunset Invasion to give myself a late-game challenge and make EU IV a bit tougher because the Americas will have High American tech group, whereas I think the very highest Mali will get is Eastern tech group, if not Muslim.

I think (can't find any data on this right now) that reformed pagan nations always end up as Eastern tech.

[RedKing]

I think tech development plays a part as well. I've been exporting every 50 years or so, just to see how some things translate over, and the first couple of exports (post-reformation) had me in the Muslim tech group.

EDIT: And in an older game, I exported a Mongol Khanate with its capital in Constantinople, and got everything from Muslim tech group to Western tech group, depending on when I exported.

[Xeron]

Is it just me or has the game become even more unstable since the last patch ? I can't invite people to plot or to my court at all, won't even display why they refuse, I crash for no goddamn reason while paused and browsing characters.

[Iceblaster]

In the year of Our Lord one thousand six hundred and one

The Holy Sanguine Empire has become stable for the first time in thirty years, with only two Dukes calling for seccession. Truly the Lord has blessed the Holiest of Emperors in Europe. The political landscape of Europe has changed quite a lot from what it was before the rise of the Holy Sanguine Empire, for it was brought about by a bold Burgundian king who had taken advantage of the crumbling Catholic Church and its increasingly small reign it had over its followers.

This Burgundian King, whose name is lost to history, originally began to just take advantage of the political landscape to expand his demesne, however he soon realized that there was a unique position he was in. His religious studies had led him to become a follower of the One True Faith, realizing that the Catholic Church had became corrupted by the powers of Satan and set out to bring his lands to the same revelation, successfully converting the Duke of Upper Burgundy, his only vassal, to our Faith. By the end of his Reign, Burgundy had expanded into the Kingdom of Aragon, taking advantage of the Muslim weakness, and expanding into eastern France while the kingdoms of the Karlings warred with each other -said family wiping itself out when our Dynasty, Wulfardson, began to conquer them.

The next king, whose name is lost to history, continues his father's goals, however he did nothing more than convert land to our Faith. The next king, whose name is lost to history, however began the historical conquests that would allow the Original Sanguine Empire to form. Expanding into Aragon completely, along with land wrested from Upper Italy, this King was wealthy enough, and prestigious enough, to call himself an Emperor, no long being a simple King among Kings. He was an Emperor among feuding siblings.

The Emperor's first decree however? Renaming Our Empire to the Sanguine Empire, feeling that the name fit moreso than Burgundian Empire. Along with a vote put out on the day of rechristening the Empire of course. The Emperor then began to quickly solidify borders, expand into Iberia, taking most of Central and Western Europe for himself and his Vassals and most of all... Deposing the Heretical Pope, whose name is a curse among the children of the Empire. As he began to establish a Holier Papacy, following the True Faith of Christianity, news came from Byzantium that they had had a Religious Revival, bringing its Emperor and their lands to follow Bogomilism. The Emperor did not react in any specific way, simply acknowledging the fact. It was rumored that the Royal Army was station near the border for a decade due to this.

And then, one hundred and forty years later?

The Holy Sanguine Empire thrives, despite Germanic invasions on the previously Independent Kingdoms of the Karlings preventing a truly solidified coast.

The current Emperor is Greek, much like our Neighbors, the Byzantine Empire.

The True Faith, as always, thrives even in the worst of Situations.


So yeah. That's how I'm doing currently. Yay. Funnily enough, Lithuania and Western Latvia are the most religiously and culturally homogenized areas.

@Miroslav guy

No serbs are present. Wiped out by the Greek culture

Is it just me or has the game become even more unstable since the last patch ? I can't invite people to plot or to my court at all, won't even display why they refuse, I crash for no goddamn reason while paused and browsing characters.

Odd. I have no idea

I haven't updated in forever.

[Loud Whispers]

What is Serb may never die, but rises sneakier and stronger as cryptoSerbs

[Digital Hellhound]

@EUIV conversion tech: You can get Western as a reformed pagan. I upgraded my capital a lot and built universities, but I'm not totally sure what did it - I wasn't paying attention to development levels.

A Mali Principality that covers all of CK2 Africa sounds pretty interesting. It'll be big, but those provinces aren't too rich, so you'll not be in a totally overpowered position (assuming other strong nations exist, or you unleash Sunset Invasion).

[RedKing]

@EUIV conversion tech: You can get Western as a reformed pagan. I upgraded my capital a lot and built universities, but I'm not totally sure what did it - I wasn't paying attention to development levels.

A Mali Principality that covers all of CK2 Africa sounds pretty interesting. It'll be big, but those provinces aren't too rich, so you'll not be in a totally overpowered position (assuming other strong nations exist, or you unleash Sunset Invasion).

But bear in mind that province "richness" is more or less a function of what you build on it. And with more money than God, I can build a LOT. The province value of Massat is up to 206, and that's only held back because I'm driving all the tech advancement in that part of the world. Only great Byzantium and gilded Venice are richer, and not by much. Even the Canary Islands compare favorably to a moderate European province. And in Africa you get one 6-slot province (Marrakesh, which is inland) and several 5-slot coastal provinces (Tangier, Tunis, Al Djazair, Alexandria). All of those have tax values over 100 at this point, roughly comparable to major European capitals like Paris, Essex (London), Bordeaux and Genoa.

And there's no Le Blob Bleu or the like in Europe, and neither the Pope nor the Caliph seem interested in messing with me at this point. It feels kinda OP. We'll see what the Aztecs can do to wreck my shit in another 100-150 years. Although my retinue is 15K men, larger than Aquitaine's entire levy. Total raiseable strength at this point is about 45-48K, plus the 2K Ghanan mercenaries.

[Teneb]

DD time

So, silk road is in. It works like republican trade posts, except they can only be built in provinces with the Silk Road modifier and can be built by anyone (even feudal) as long as they own the province. However, if a war breaks out in a province that is part of the road, the trade will be cut off starting at that point until things calm down. I guess this means that trade "flows" from the eastern map border. If trade cannot go through a certain route, it will instead take another, giving whomever controls it even more money. I can imagine starting wars in specific places so that your own silk road provinces generate more cash.

Another new system is the raiding adventurers. Apparently, it'll be used by defeated nomads (remember that they mentioned that if you lose all your land as a nomad, it is not game over) and folks like the normans. Germanic raiding adventurers spawn with ships, while nomads don't. You can raid any province with no restrictions except those you were expelled from. The money gained from raiding will be used to get more troops and eventually they'll attempt to become landed. A ruler can also offer to land these adventurers, giving them a border or coastal province, like what happened with the historical normans. The adventurers may refuse, however. Especially ambitious adventurers will usually refuse anything less than a duchy. If no offers are made, they will eventually try to claim a duchy for themselves.

The settle adventurer system can also be used on the dynamic mercenaries covered earlier if you somehow manage to make them really like you. Settled raiders will become feudal/iqta and will be disinherited from their original realms. Apparently, a province settled by former raiders can't be raided for some time.

The old adventurers as well as the mercenaries (but not those who were displaced by conquests) gain a trait that not only makes them even more ambitious, but also gives them greater martial capacity.

I think this expansion will be big. I sure am hyped.

Spoiler: images (click to show/hide)

[Digital Hellhound]

@EUIV conversion tech: You can get Western as a reformed pagan. I upgraded my capital a lot and built universities, but I'm not totally sure what did it - I wasn't paying attention to development levels.

A Mali Principality that covers all of CK2 Africa sounds pretty interesting. It'll be big, but those provinces aren't too rich, so you'll not be in a totally overpowered position (assuming other strong nations exist, or you unleash Sunset Invasion).

But bear in mind that province "richness" is more or less a function of what you build on it. And with more money than God, I can build a LOT. The province value of Massat is up to 206, and that's only held back because I'm driving all the tech advancement in that part of the world. Only great Byzantium and gilded Venice are richer, and not by much. Even the Canary Islands compare favorably to a moderate European province. And in Africa you get one 6-slot province (Marrakesh, which is inland) and several 5-slot coastal provinces (Tangier, Tunis, Al Djazair, Alexandria). All of those have tax values over 100 at this point, roughly comparable to major European capitals like Paris, Essex (London), Bordeaux and Genoa.

And there's no Le Blob Bleu or the like in Europe, and neither the Pope nor the Caliph seem interested in messing with me at this point. It feels kinda OP. We'll see what the Aztecs can do to wreck my shit in another 100-150 years. Although my retinue is 15K men, larger than Aquitaine's entire levy. Total raiseable strength at this point is about 45-48K, plus the 2K Ghanan mercenaries.

I meant more for EUIV, if you converted now. At least I remember it so that EUIV uses vanilla province values, no matter how rich and amazing you've built up your provinces in CK2. I might be remembering wrong - it'd be nice if I was.

[Icefire2314]

I started as Briefne in Ireland and eventually inherited the HRE

[RedKing]

Base tax in EUIV is modified by number of holdings, though perhaps not by level of development in those holdings.

I'm curious to know to what extent improvements are imported though. Fortification levels do seem to play a role in creating forts in EUIV (especially now that forts have been overhauled), but I'd love to know what role things like universities and shipyards play, if any.

In firing up EUIV recently, I barely recognize the game anymore. So much of the mechanics have been overhauled, and I haven't really played since about 4 or 5 DLCs ago. And I can't find anywhere that details the inner mechanics of the converter.

[Teneb]

In firing up EUIV recently, I barely recognize the game anymore. So much of the mechanics have been overhauled, and I haven't really played since about 4 or 5 DLCs ago. And I can't find anywhere that details the inner mechanics of the converter.

Regarding converter details, I think it is because only a single CK2 dev actually works on it. It also explains why it tends to take a while for the converter to work again after each EU4 DLC.

We could probably do some testing by starting at various bookmarks and then exporting as well as using console commands to create certain situations and then observe the results.