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[Majestic7]

Viceroyalties are basically regal or ducal titles which are not inheritable. I think the tribal mechanics are a good additional way to portray eastern tributaries for various empires which held only weak authority over their fringe vassal. Hopefully mods will make use of this if the vanilla game can't/won't. (Not talking about mechanics for tribes as such, but tribal vassals. They are more like permanent allies who might or might not answer the liege lord's call for arms. Even if they do, they operate as independent armies.)

[a1s]

I think the tribal mechanics are a good additional way to portray eastern tributaries for various empires which held only weak authority over their fringe vassal.

Tributaries? Do they pay taxes or just provide some independent troops whenever they feel like it?

[Rakonas]

No taxes, you have to call them to war like allies. Until you have higher tribal organization laws and then it's pretty much normal.

[Rilder]

So something happened in CK2 that I've never seen... I mean I've seen heresies take power before...but... I...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Francia is divided in two...The Francia empire itself is Orthodox while an Independant ELECTIVE middle Francia is Monothelite. Lombardy as well has recently converted to Monothelitism.  The Catholics in Anatolia are the Knights Hospitaller who won it in a Crusade. (After it was lost by the East Roman Empire in a Jihad) They also won Jerusalem earlier but have lost it in a Jihad.

[Duuvian]

Suomensko or however it's spelled is doing well too. I've never seen them take over Russia before (in an Old Gods or 1066 start).

[Rutee]

Yeah heresies seem to have been buffed somehow.  I watched the very rapid conversion of the Byzantine empire to an Iconoclast state.  I also learned that if the majority of provinces flip, the religion itself flips, and regular orthodox becomes the heresy, complete with the conversion of Holy Orders.

[Teneb]

Yeah heresies seem to have been buffed somehow.  I watched the very rapid conversion of the Byzantine empire to an Iconoclast state.  I also learned that if the majority of provinces flip, the religion itself flips, and regular orthodox becomes the heresy, complete with the conversion of Holy Orders.

I think, not sure since I don't have the dlc yet, the ERE emperor starts iconoclast in the new start date, which could explain why it converted that fast.

[Pentagram]

Be sure to use the newest beta patch if all of you dont, otherwise the muslim realms never fall apart

[Wiles]

Be sure to use the newest beta patch if all of you dont, otherwise the muslim realms never fall apart

They're still pretty stable in the beta patch. I've played about 300 years so far and the Abbasids are still a mega blob of doom. Their decadence is always around 0 when I check.

Yeah heresies seem to have been buffed somehow.  I watched the very rapid conversion of the Byzantine empire to an Iconoclast state.  I also learned that if the majority of provinces flip, the religion itself flips, and regular orthodox becomes the heresy, complete with the conversion of Holy Orders.

I think heresies got reworked with Sons of Abraham. Heresies tend to become rampant when your religion has low moral authority. With how strong the Muslims are the Byzantines lose a lot of holy wars driving the Orthodox moral authority into the ground.

Edit: Looks like the Byzantine Emperor from the new start date follows Iconoclasm.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Be sure to use the newest beta patch if all of you dont, otherwise the muslim realms never fall apart

They're still pretty stable in the beta patch. I've played about 300 years so far and the Abbasids are still a mega blob of doom. Their decadence is always around 0 when I check.

Abbasids are 0% decadence in my New Zoroaster game..


And that comes with +50% morale and constant Holy War blobbing [+land -decadence], yay self fulfilling stats!

Religious rebels are stupid in this version, they weren't this obnoxious post rebel-fix. The cooldown wears away and an instant heresy revolt pops off. Sometimes they're 5,000 soldiers from a useless province in Siberia. Sometimes they're 50 right near Khiva. It legitimately makes no sense anymore, and to top it off it's incredibly predictable. I'm guaranteed a 10-10,000 rebellion stack in a random spot when the 'Crushed Revolt' cooldown wears off, it's like it doesn't care what individual province revolt %'s are [aka the revolt% builds up during the cooldown...?].

Half the dynasties in my world seem to be inbred.

Great or terrible?

I'm playing Zoroastrian, so all leaders are married to their kin.

[Bouchart]

Half the dynasties in my world seem to be inbred.

Great or terrible?

Historically accurate.  Just look at Charles II.  His family tree looks like a pretzel.

[Wiles]

A new beta patch is out. Biggest change seems to be to gavelkind. Now the game will try to make sure your heir inherits titles from your capital duchy. I'm glad they tweaked this, it wasn't very fun to lose all of your best provinces and get stuck in some worthless county.

Another nice change is that tribals can now raid realms that share their religion. That should make tribal Ireland a little more interesting in the early game.

Spoiler: Here's the changelog (click to show/hide)

MAJOR:
- Disabled the Depose Liege CB and the Weaken Fellow Vassal plots for not working well enough
- Fixed an issue where adventurers would no longer spawn fleets correctly
- Tweaked Gavelkind succession to focus more on the current capital duchy region for the primary heir rather than the "preferred" capital
- Tweaked Gavelkind succession to take no heed of what heirs will inherit from outside your realm

MINOR:
- Fixed bug where combats with multiple units on one side would always pick the WORST leader for each flank
- You can now only complete the "Become Exalted Among Men" ambition once per lifetime.
- Fixed OOS if all players did not reselect their characters after the last player had loaded the save.
- Tribals will now upgrade towards castle if their liege is feudal and city if their liege is republic.
- Removed the vassal king opinion penalty.
- Faction CBs are now invalidated when the liege is in a faction.
- The Byzantine free revoke on duchies are now in the Imperial Administration law.
- If the Charlemagne DLC is enabled, the Byzantine free revoke on duchies only applies to Viceroyalties.
- Fixed bug where the Centralization law was reset to the first level when enabling High Tribal Organization.
- The viceroyalty status of titles are now reset when the top liege gets the title, instead of just the liege.
- Lowered the opinion penalty for feudal vassals for granted viceroyalties (was -5 for king viceroys and -2 for duke viceroys, is now -2 for kings and -1 for dukes).
- Vassals can now grant viceroyalties if their topliege have laws allowing this and they have viceroyalty titles to give away.
- The viceroyalty flag for titles now resets when the topliege inherits the title, not just the liege.
- Viceroyalty titles can no longer be given as a normal title to a vassal.
- Added missing decision icon for offering to help with lieges titles.
- Minor localization fixes for events.
- Viceroyalties now provide their lieges with fewer levies.
- Fixed bug where overridden tribal holdings were not properly removed.
- The decisions for forming kingdoms and empires now have their succession laws inherited from the base title.
- Fixed CTD when using the console to increase attributes and the target character was dead.
- Event when regent is in on plot to lower tribal organization now have the right localization.
- Crash fixes for total conversion mods when learning scenario characters did not exist.
- Fixed republican succession where the capital was not a county capital.
- Tribal buildings now show what castle and city buildings they convert to in their tooltip.
- Republics now use their succession laws properly for all their titles and not just some of them.
- Fixed bug where looters were able to siege several holdings in one province simultaneously.
- Fixed broken calculation of months when determining if the war is undecided.
- Fixed bug where characters selected before loading a save was still the selected character after the save was loaded.
- Fixed issue where the exported chronicle showed the wrong year.
- Fixed bug where chronicle entries were missing from the chronicle.
- Characters with portraits in the chronicle will no longer be pruned from the database.
- Fixed bug where filler-entries showed the wrong year.
- The call all tribal allies tooltip now tells you when you can not call tribal vassals.
- AI no longer changes viceroyalty laws to handle being over vassal limit.
- Tribals and pagans can now raid others of the same religion.
- Triggered modifiers will no longer be added repeatedly and will be removed when no longer valid.
- Fixed bug where succession laws inherited from viceroyalties defaulted to gavelkind instead of the intended law.
- It is no longer possible to destroy viceroyalties.
- Fixed bug where factions to change succession laws were allowed against viceroyalties.
- When copying laws from viceroyalties, the liege title will be used for copying the laws.
- Fixed bug where the mongols could enact the open elective law.
- Viceroyalties can no longer change succession laws.
- Pressing "G" when having several units selected will now merge the units instead of changning mapmode.
- Blocked several CB's and plots against viceroyalties.
- Fixed bug where characters lost the viceroyalty-tag on their titles when they rebelled against their liege.
- Fixed bug where characters did not lose the viceroyalty-tag when they inherited their top liege title.
- Forming a merchant republic no longer creates a patrician of your own dynasty vassal.
- Mercenary costs are now calculated properly before raising them.

MODDING:
- Added copy_title_laws flag to the create_title effect (yes will copy laws from the base title)
- The priority_shortcut flag in interface scripts can now be used to define priority shortcuts. Priority shortcuts will fire before any other shortcuts.
- Added error log message for assigning is_viceroyalty in history where the title is owned by the top liege.

[Rolan7]

Yeah I never understood why pagans could only raid against other religions.  Pagans are supposed to be characterized by infighting, not zealotry.  They can war against each other relatively easily, why can't they raid?

Like in King of Dragon Pass (a completely accurate historical account of a place which totally existed) raiding cattle from other tribes is justified under the region's religion if you can get away with it.  If you can't defend your cattle, anyone else has a right to take them.

I don't really know, but I think that in real life the Norse mainly raided civilized states because they were rich targets, and unlikely to counterattack over the water.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

In the context of a 1-province tribal start [keep in mind other tribals near you are usually one province as well], it's probably to keep you from just raiding your neighbor without DoWing, then after you've razed them [if have the superior numbers to siege the garrison+levy] you can DoW to annex them for basically no risk. I do this as any raiding religion, and the no-raiding-your-own-religion kept me from just cheese annexing whomever I want. Not that I care particularly since I hardly play tribal.. It's kinda a pain to deal with.

And yes, you can argue 'you should just DoW instead of being a cheap prick about the raiding mechanic if your intention was just to annex them anyway'. But generally you seriously don't want to risk your first levies in even small scale warfare. The AI hardly knows how to deal with a raider, unfortunately even less so with a neighboring raider. What they should do is immediately turn on a 'If being raided by raidable faction, squash raiders and/or raid them back' logic. I've never seen anyone raid me as a neighboring lootable religion. It's kinda annoying that the only raiders you see are coastal vikings with how predictable they are.

[Satarus]

In the context of a 1-province tribal start [keep in mind other tribals near you are usually one province as well], it's probably to keep you from just raiding your neighbor without DoWing, then after you've razed them [if have the superior numbers to siege the garrison+levy] you can DoW to annex them for basically no risk. I do this as any raiding religion, and the no-raiding-your-own-religion kept me from just cheese annexing whomever I want. Not that I care particularly since I hardly play tribal.. It's kinda a pain to deal with.

And yes, you can argue 'you should just DoW instead of being a cheap prick about the raiding mechanic if your intention was just to annex them anyway'. But generally you seriously don't want to risk your first levies in even small scale warfare. The AI hardly knows how to deal with a raider, unfortunately even less so with a neighboring raider. What they should do is immediately turn on a 'If being raided by raidable faction, squash raiders and/or raid them back' logic. I've never seen anyone raid me as a neighboring lootable religion. It's kinda annoying that the only raiders you see are coastal vikings with how predictable they are.

Well you would still have the raided my holding opinion malus after you subjugated the guy. This could make factions dangerous.