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[Descan]

* Descan puts the ubiquitous "Ireland is tutorial island" comment here.

[Rakonas]

Don't forget to start in 1066 for Ireland, though.

[Digital Hellhound]

Challenge, challenge. Ireland is really not challenge.

You could look around at the later bookmarks - the Latin Empire time period has the region very broken and nice, for example. There's the 'why you should play as any particular character' thread on the Paradox forums, too.

[Descan]

You could try and replicate the Habsburg, they have a count in Aargau (near Switzerland) you can play as.

[TripJack]

So I'm having a really hard time getting into the game. I mean I like it but it always seems that I get so much power so quickly that it is a little to easy, but at the same time I don't want to have to start out hopelessly low either. Can anyone recommend a starting place in vanilla for a fun, but challenging campaign, preferably western europe

try an iberian character in 1066, if you want a good challenge go with navarra or aragon

[Dutchling]

Irish count in the Old Gods start.

[EuchreJack]

The patch for Raja's looks to be fixing Decadence [Dev Diary]

Does this mean AI Muslim empires in general are a little more stable, with the revamped decadence system?

Yes, but when they fall, they fall hard.

Awh, I like unstable Empires.  But at least they'll die gloriously instead of just changing the ruling dynasty like they do now.

Challenge, challenge. Ireland is really not challenge.

You could look around at the later bookmarks - the Latin Empire time period has the region very broken and nice, for example. There's the 'why you should play as any particular character' thread on the Paradox forums, too.

Just don't try and play as the Latin Empire itself.  Ouch, is that painful.

[Chaoswizkid]

Irish count in the Old Gods start.

While not as easy as the 1066 start, you're still relatively safe in the Old God's start. Leinster's a decent start for a challenge because Tara has multiple provinces and you only have 1, and unlike in 1066 you don't almost immediately inherit another province. If Skotland or England ever get organized you'll have some trouble, but they can be dealt with before and after they organize by using assassins, so...

[EnigmaticHat]

Have you actually played that start?  You can get invaded by a fairly large Norse army almost directly after unpausing.

[Teneb]

Have you actually played that start?  You can get invaded by a fairly large Norse army almost directly after unpausing.

It depends a lot on how lucky you are. I've seen the norse completely ignore ireland in some games, while in others they've gone after it straight after unpausing.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

In that case, Norţhymbra is the hardest start.

.... Challenge accepted.

[Sindain]

Haven't actually tried it but I've heard that Northumbria is quite a bit easier now since you can just abuse the jew loan plus expel to get a free merc army and stomp all over the Great Heathen Army.

[Chaoswizkid]

Have you actually played that start?  You can get invaded by a fairly large Norse army almost directly after unpausing.

You could say I have played that start, yes.
I'm not saying it's easy or even as easy as Leinster 1066, I'm just saying that all the difficulty is front-loaded, and, barring that Norse invasion, you don't have anyone really breathing down your neck other than Tara. You take out Tara, you stop the other earls from creating petty kingdoms and you should be golden for the rest of the game. In my experience, anyway.

[EnigmaticHat]

Fair enough.  I still wouldn't recommend it, he said "not hopelessly low" which implies he doesn't want to randomly lose in the first half hour of gameplay.

[Sindain]

I'm just saying that all the difficulty is front-loaded,

Thats something you can say about just about all starts in CK2, barring the uber hard ones like 1066 slavic/norse games or 867 Christan Hungary area dukes.