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[Owlbread]

Spoiler: I had no idea this was even possible in this game. (click to show/hide)

I was really freaked out when I saw that. I don't even want to know how that worked. The Duchy of Anatolia is independent, but the horribly tortured Duke's daughter is married to the Duke of Trebizond, which is a vassal of Byzantium.

[umiman]

It's generally a punishment used for traitors and rebels in the Byzantine empire. Castration is another.

[Owlbread]

But if they could capture him, why did they allow him to become independent?

[Sheb]

Maybe he became independent post-blinding?

[Owlbread]

I just checked through history by looking at my old savegames. I managed to pinpoint a time when he had become independent through warfare, but was actually captured during the rebellion by the Byzantines who knew they couldn't defeat him in battle. They castrated and blinded him, meaning he had no choice but to marry off his daughter to some Byzantine Duke.

[Owlbread]

I apologise for double posting like this in a bid to bump, but I really need to ask a question that's been eating at me for a while.

I've found that I can make infinite merchant republic/theocracy vassals by granting Duke-level titles to burghers or priests while owning all the counties in the duchy. They don't try to take a county for themselves, they just become Duke (or Rabban or Archbishop and so on). I then give the counties away to courtiers and transfer the vassals over to the Dukes. Through this method I can create as many Merchant Republics/Theocracies as I like without going over the county limit. It tells me I have 6 counties in vassal theocracies but my Archbishops have no counties to their name, just vassals and a few temples/cities. It still doesn't say I am over the limit (which is listed as 1), even though I clearly am, unless Duchies are being half-considered to be counties or something.

It may be of note that in the duchies I was creating, I only owned one of the counties in each. All the rest of the counties belonged to other counts. When I made the Archbishop/Rabban, maybe he didn't try to take my county because it was the last one in the realm and my power/authority supersedes his.

Is this a massive exploit that I should stop doing right now? My head is exploding.

[Sheb]

Well, I don't really see the problem. They'll probably loose their duchy title to rebellious vassals soon if they don't have counties to provide them with troops.

[Owlbread]

Well, I don't really see the problem. They'll probably loose their duchy title to rebellious vassals soon if they don't have counties to provide them with troops.

Well, you'd say that... but...

When I was creating my new Theocratic Duchy/Archbishopric I already had one just above it that contained a county under the Rabban's direct control, along with about 4 counties under noble control but in turn were vassals of the Duke. I hadn't had any problems with him for a long time, he kept good order and never had any problems with rebellious vassals. The only issue was when we fell out over my own personal tyranny that he started an independence war against me.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Technically just a Duchy without any counties would be a titular title, if you're granting a duchy to someone with just one church, it should change that holding to the capital of the county. Unless I remember wrong.

In the same vein, you can give Arch-Bisphorics/Super Bisphorics as many in-county holdings as you want because it won't go above the x% of provinces limit.

Of course, I don't make them big as that anymore. Succession laws in theocracies blow, if you make a super-bishop you're basically setting a fuse on a rebellion.

[Sheb]

Free investiture?

[Owlbread]

So this is generally considered acceptable (i.e. not an exploit) because the titles are just titular? The Rabban doesn't hold any counties because I held the last county in the duchy when I created it and he didn't try to take mine.

I've got two Merchant Republic vassals at the moment and I'm about to go to war with one of them to create a third, but I'm wondering whether I shouldn't.

[PanH]

Generally, you want only one merchant republic around you (and preferably your vassal). Having several will make them rival, as well as diminishing the trade effect.

Technically just a Duchy without any counties would be a titular title, if you're granting a duchy to someone with just one church, it should change that holding to the capital of the county. Unless I remember wrong.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't, since you can have dukes without a single county (and only a barony).

[Rolan7]

What's the benefit of having a theocratic duchy?  I've only tried it with pagans and for fun/flavor (landing my daughters, dedicating Rome and Jerusalem to Odin...)  The daughters-thing didn't work out because, afaik, the theocracies were inherited by some generated courtier instead of remaining in my dynasty at all.

The trick might be useful for merchant republics though, if you don't have access to those funky one-county duchies which clearly exist for trade republics (Gotland, Venice, Amalfi are the only ones I know of).  In my last game I set up Gotland and the duchy of Finland as trade Repulics.  Gotland made a lot more trading posts, but Finland had more land, and neither were particularly rebellious.  The main downside was that I couldn't keep my dynasty in control of them, but meh.  Finland actually took about 30 years to get the tech for trading posts, which was annoying but ended up not being a big deal.  Except I heard trade posts actually improve the income from counties they're built in?

To be honest I didn't pay attention because I was making money head over fist by raiding with my retinues

[Owlbread]

So I should just make one super-republic? I can do that. It means I won't have to go to war then, I know the warfare will come when I try to retract a vassal you see.

[PanH]

You don't need to have a super republic. One republic which owns a county is largely enough already, and if the duchy is bigger, make sure the other counties are held by noble vassals (to weaken the republic). The strength of a republic lies in its trading post and being coastal.
It makes money as well as makes the counties they have trade posts in more rich. It gives you their money, their boats, and makes your regions richer. Having more than one won't bring much more, except trouble (vassals republic can be quite unruly and dangerous due to them having lots of money).
You'd really need to have a big empire to need more than one republic (say, from the baltic to ireland)