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Author Topic: Crusader Kings 2 is released.  (Read 2112956 times)

Digital Hellhound

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4605 on: December 15, 2013, 10:28:32 am »

While this was just a spontaneous thing, sometimes I do feel like eradicating the Karlings off the face of the earth. Karliiiiiiiiiings!
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4606 on: December 15, 2013, 10:29:11 am »

Oh, and matrilineal marriages are another thing that annoys me to no end...

I have, say, a mayor with good traits, like bright, and want to have that trait passed on, so I take one of my minor noble women I have lying around, and tell them to matrilineally marry him. 

No dice, he refuses, because "she's not important enough". 

Normal marriage?  No dice, he refuses because "lowborn men can only marry matrilineally".

His ambition is to get married.

WTF?!

You telling me random Mayor McNobody refuses to get married unless it's a princess?!
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mainiac

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4607 on: December 15, 2013, 10:46:26 am »

Again, I thought this game had had years of patching to balance this stuff out?  These things like mercenaries and peasant revolts are blindingly obviously unbalanced, I can't imagine they wouldn't have figured this stuff out if they had ever bothered playtesting their game at all.

It has years of patching geared towards the starts after 1066.  You are playing 867, a recent addition.  If you want balance, starting at the Alexid date would be ideal.

If you have the steam version, then get the beta patch, it nerf rebels.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4608 on: December 15, 2013, 01:24:23 pm »

Oh, and matrilineal marriages are another thing that annoys me to no end...

I have, say, a mayor with good traits, like bright, and want to have that trait passed on, so I take one of my minor noble women I have lying around, and tell them to matrilineally marry him. 

No dice, he refuses, because "she's not important enough". 

Normal marriage?  No dice, he refuses because "lowborn men can only marry matrilineally".

His ambition is to get married.

WTF?!

You telling me random Mayor McNobody refuses to get married unless it's a princess?!

The marriage mechanics have recently been changed to generally make marriages harder, as before it was crazy easy to marry for claims.  I suspect mayors have accidentally been thrown into that fix (since their children don't inherit their titles, they really shouldn't be programmed to avoid marriages that would lead to their dynasty losing titles).

I'm not even certain if mayors can get married if they aren't nobles or patricians.  If they can, they'll probably only marry a relative of a ruler (so they get an ally out of it).  "Desires a better alliance" has been a major hindrance to marriage proposals since the game came out.

umiman

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4609 on: December 15, 2013, 08:44:41 pm »

While this was just a spontaneous thing, sometimes I do feel like eradicating the Karlings off the face of the earth. Karliiiiiiiiiings!
Come at us bro.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4610 on: December 15, 2013, 09:17:37 pm »

While this was just a spontaneous thing, sometimes I do feel like eradicating the Karlings off the face of the earth. Karliiiiiiiiiings!
Come at us bro.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fortress Europa... You're only really missing North Africa. (And it looks like you have a toehold on the UK, too.)
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majikero

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4611 on: December 15, 2013, 09:34:54 pm »

It's already a foothold. See those Scottish parts?
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Duuvian

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4612 on: December 16, 2013, 04:19:03 am »

The rebels flock to.. event hasn't been balanced for the levy rebalance of 2.0. Should be fixed in the future.

I sure hope so, it keeps messing up my ironman game, or at least I think that is what is doing it. I go and fight some pagans, storm their last castle to keep them from converting to Catholicism for an instant win, and then a faction with one Duke (who is around +30ish relationship towards me) all of a sudden has 80% of my Empire's troop capacity.
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Rolan7

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4613 on: December 16, 2013, 04:50:02 am »

I've got to creative-mode size with my Orthodox Republic of Wales (and England, and Africa, originally Sicily...)  Right now I'm trying to heal the great schism, but having trouble.  I invaded Rome easily, but I don't have an empire yet (I'm painting the map "Wales" not "Britannia") so the pope wasn't vassalized.  I knew to expect that.

Problem is, the county of Rome is now held by a newly generated Lord Mayor with no option to revoke his titles.  It's not the "Republics need a valid reason to revoke" thing, the button is just... missing.  I can't banish him either.  I did finally discover the joy of excommunication and execution, though, which I wish I noticed sooner!  But a new Lord Mayor instantly appears with all his titles (they have no family, so no heir listed).  I killed three before I decided it wasn't working.

It's not just the county of Rome stuck in this limbo lord, either.  For some reason he's also Lord Mayor of a nearby county, and now he's also mayor of some town in Ireland I granted him as a test.  Still no option to revoke or banish, and all three titles are instantly passed on to his reincarnation.

So... how the heck do I establish a patriarch in Rome?  I don't have Sons of Abraham, which I'm worried is related.

It's actually fine if I can't mend the schism, though, I'll just move ahead with bringing West African to Europe.  It's the mid 900's, I bet I can cover the map if I reform it first...
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EuchreJack

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4614 on: December 16, 2013, 07:35:47 am »

Grant the Lord Mayor independence, then immediately declare war.  To the victor go the conquests!

Wiles

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4615 on: December 16, 2013, 12:00:18 pm »

The "peasant revolt" system is just flagrantly broken and completely unsuited for that time period.  Since when do "peasants" have thousands of knights at their disposal?  Where were they keeping them?  The simple answer is that these aren't peasants, they're obviously just generating some mercenary doom stacks to create an army, and don't give half a damn about game balance when they create these things.

In Old Gods, the castles and such have no upgrades whatsoever, so I'm capable of mustering about 400 troops per county I can control, but these guys spawn in troop numbers that are obviously geared towards giving an established kingdom from 1066+ trouble.  It's flagrantly unbalanced.

Again, I thought this game had had years of patching to balance this stuff out?  These things like mercenaries and peasant revolts are blindingly obviously unbalanced, I can't imagine they wouldn't have figured this stuff out if they had ever bothered playtesting their game at all.

It's not a peasant revolt, it's a different kind of revolt. I can't remember the name of it, but it does mention nobles in the text when you get the revolt in your own realm. They're a lot more powerful than a peasant revolt and they create a kingdom when they win and the King gets the "liberator" nickname.

2.0 rebalanced the levy system completely and unfortunately since the patch was coming out with Sons of Abraham they didn't go through the public beta patch process they usually do which let some very glaring mistakes make it through. One of which was that revolts had not been rebalanced to match the new levy system. This has been fixed now in 2.0.2. 

Honestly I'm pretty happy with the way the development has been going, stuff like this does pop up, but this game has continued development for a lot longer than most other games I've played. Some pretty nasty errors like this pop up now and then but generally things get fixed and the games gets better.  I'd definitely recommend opting into beta patches for Crusader Kings if you have it through steam. Usually they fix more stuff than they break. This revolt balancing problem was fixed pretty quickly with the beta patch, but it took the official patch took quite a bit longer to come out.
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umiman

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4616 on: December 16, 2013, 12:19:50 pm »

Yeah, you're totally blowing it out of proportion, If it's so unplayable like you describe no one would play the game.

Descan

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4617 on: December 16, 2013, 12:52:30 pm »

To me, it sounds more like you saw one bug (the peasant rebels not taking into account the levy changes) and condemned the whole game.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4618 on: December 16, 2013, 01:23:08 pm »

It's not a peasant revolt, it's a different kind of revolt. I can't remember the name of it, but it does mention nobles in the text when you get the revolt in your own realm. They're a lot more powerful than a peasant revolt and they create a kingdom when they win and the King gets the "liberator" nickname.

2.0 rebalanced the levy system completely and unfortunately since the patch was coming out with Sons of Abraham they didn't go through the public beta patch process they usually do which let some very glaring mistakes make it through. One of which was that revolts had not been rebalanced to match the new levy system. This has been fixed now in 2.0.2. 

Honestly I'm pretty happy with the way the development has been going, stuff like this does pop up, but this game has continued development for a lot longer than most other games I've played. Some pretty nasty errors like this pop up now and then but generally things get fixed and the games gets better.  I'd definitely recommend opting into beta patches for Crusader Kings if you have it through steam. Usually they fix more stuff than they break. This revolt balancing problem was fixed pretty quickly with the beta patch, but it took the official patch took quite a bit longer to come out.

Once again, no, it wasn't a faction or anything, it was a peasant revolt against the Dutch invaders.

They called themselves the "Irish Liberation Army", they won and created and claimed for themselves the "Kingdom of Ireland" at the same time, even though they only controlled two counties in Ireland.  Then they started annexing the rest of Ireland with their super-stacks because the independent counties could only muster 400 units to their 8000. 

To me, it sounds more like you saw one bug (the peasant rebels not taking into account the levy changes) and condemned the whole game.

I gave off a list of a half-dozen different bugs and other stupid things happening.

It sounds to me like you're only listening to the one bug that most stood out to you, and condemned my whole argument.

Yeah, you're totally blowing it out of proportion, If it's so unplayable like you describe no one would play the game.

Two things:

First, a quick look at the achievement boards states that only 5% of players ever use Ironman Mode, the mode that exists explicitly for preventing savescumming.  My complaint was that this sort of utterly random crap is easily countered through savescumming, so that tells me an awful lot about how people are playing this game.  It also tells me how utterly garbage Paradox's crapshoot events sub-systems are in this supposedly strategic game.  There is little to nothing at all strategic about these random events, but they tend to make up the bulk of what you contend with in the game, because few events besides open conflict can be resolved with actual strategy. 

Second, it's pretty clear that most players are going the easier road of either playing as a king or emperor or else playing as someone who can easily marry into, inherit, or usurp a kingdom or empire.  The fact that most of these problems I'm complaining about are so unsolvable at the duke/count level is probably why most people are not playing these smaller roles. 

So yes, apparently, nobody is playing the game, at least, the one I'm playing.
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lemon10

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #4619 on: December 16, 2013, 01:55:24 pm »

People don't usually play ironman because people usually don't chose non-default ironman (in almost every game). While some might be turned off because the game is too random, many people who are going to play it in ironman mode probably won't particularly care that there is terrible luck.

I personally have never played CK2 in ironman, not because of how you can get randomly screwed over (since that is one of the main parts of actually playing ironman, not being able to dodge bad luck of any sort), but because I haven't really ever felt like it so far. I suspect that the same thing is true for 90% of the people who don't play ironman.

And honestly, if you choose to play a purposefully small role on ironmode, its not really fair to complain that the entire game is broken because you can get randomly screwed over without any real counter, seeing as that kind of thing did happen all the time to counts and dukes in real life.
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