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[Wiles]

The latter half makes me think you're glitching, but you sure it was "usurp", not that he inherited it somehow?

Yeah, it popped up saying he usurped it. He shouldn't have had any kind of claim on it, there's been no interaction between my Empire and the Kingdom of Mali since I pushed it back in to its de jure borders 300 years prior.

I think there might be some weirdness with King level titles. I had the Pope usurp a barony in my empire after I sacked Rome. 

[Mono124]

Is anyone else finding Pagan Norse completely overpowered? I started off as Dublin in the 867 start, and have moved to being the Empire of Britannia with reformed Norse religious authority at 100, and Catholic religious authority at 4, while holding all of the Isles as well as all of the Norse holy sites, Brittany, 1/2 of the Kingdom of France, and 1/3 of the dejure HRE, as well as Rome... all within 6 generations (including the 2 that were assassinated within 2 years of taking the throne). I took over Ireland and did not expand past Ireland for about the first 100 years, but now that I started, it's not even at the old start date yet, and the only way I can be beat is if a bunch of people ally together or the Byzantine Empire comes knocking at my door.

EDIT: I think probably the easiest way to fix the OP Norse would be having a forced split of at least 3, so even if you only have 1 son, it still splits into 3 pieces with only 1 going to your son and the others going to relatives/random people. It would cause a scramble to get back your lands, and it would be impossible to bloat much past a kingdom or two.

[bulborbish]

Is anyone else finding Pagan Norse completely overpowered? I started off as Dublin in the 867 start, and have moved to being the Empire of Britannia with reformed Norse religious authority at 100, and Catholic religious authority at 4, while holding all of the Isles as well as all of the Norse holy sites, Brittany, 1/2 of the Kingdom of France, and 1/3 of the dejure HRE, as well as Rome... all within 6 generations (including the 2 that were assassinated within 2 years of taking the throne). I took over Ireland and did not expand past Ireland for about the first 100 years, but now that I started, it's not even at the old start date yet, and the only way I can be beat is if a bunch of people ally together or the Byzantine Empire comes knocking at my door.

EDIT: I think probably the easiest way to fix the OP Norse would be having a forced split of at least 3, so even if you only have 1 son, it still splits into 3 pieces with only 1 going to your son and the others going to relatives/random people. It would cause a scramble to get back your lands, and it would be impossible to bloat much past a kingdom or two.

The most recent patch downpowered all of the new casus belli, so it should give the Catholics more time to get their act together before it becomes an issue.

And on your suggestion, that would make the Norse pagans one of the worse religions to play in the game, along with earning the ire of the fanbase which will say that Paradox made the Norse Unhistoric and Unplayable. Regardless, it doesn't make sense to force a new form of gavelkind which removes your provinces to others when that is what current gavelkind simulates (only to your family members, which is historic). When you reform the norse faith, of course your going to see a change in difficulty because the new structure of the church (which emulates muslim and Christian churches) allows the broken behavior you described.

In short, the moment you reform the church, you get the results you just described, because all restrictions that existed for the system have changes to the best of both the Muslim and Christian systems.

[Mono124]

I am running that game on the newest patch though. Maybe set it up so you cannot reform until XYZ date? I reformed VERY early, and that was only after I was like, meh, might as well. I reformed almost 10 years after I figured I should do it, and that time was spent waiting for fabrications (because I wasn't going to battle the pre HRE and stuff so I took them from the norse).

[Neonivek]

Is anyone else finding Pagan Norse completely overpowered?

Given the game basically up and said that the only goals are what you chose and that score is for losers.

Is there such a thing as overpowered?

[krisslanza]

Is anyone else finding Pagan Norse completely overpowered?

Given the game basically up and said that the only goals are what you chose and that score is for losers.

Is there such a thing as overpowered?

Judging by the things the forums are full of, yes. Basically anytime a new thing comes out that allows easy, hassle-free conquest, gets branded OP and nerfed by Paradox within a few patches, generally.

I can see an issue with it in MP, but...

[Kanil]

Is anyone else finding Pagan Norse completely overpowered?

Given the game basically up and said that the only goals are what you chose and that score is for losers.

Is there such a thing as overpowered?

If your goal doesn't involve a mad dash to conquer enough land that you can fend off the norse hordes, then yes, there can be such a thing as overpowered. Oddly enough, Paradox has made a game where the stated goal is to basically conquer the whole world, and CK2 isn't it.

[FritzPL]

Norse is awesome. Raiding 75 gold North African provinces ftw.

[scriver]

Scriver's route to making the Norse more historical -
1, Rulers can only own one or two counties. Might allow more batonies in said countries. Trying to hold more should lead to large penalties.

2, Vassal AI should consider changing liege a lot more often if they like someone better than you (unless they're blood or blood-by-marriage).

I had two more things I was going to mention but I forgot them while writing. So I guess I'll just end it with 3, Any character that goes abroad should have a 75% chance of becoming and 90% of your soldiers should not want to return again because the food up there sucks.

[PanH]

2, Vassal AI should consider changing liege a lot more often if they like someone better than you (unless they're blood or blood-by-marriage).

It's already the case, if you're unreformed.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

If I was designing the Old Gods expansions I would have made a High King system for pagans. While it's not 100% historically accurate it would help to better model the decentralisation of pagan states and to make it feel more tribal than feudal.
Basically there is a king or emperor title known as the High King which takes a certain traits, stats and prestige/piety to create. When a ruler holds this title only then are they allowed the subjugation cb against anyone in the de jure. The title can be usurped by anyone who has the necessary prerequisites and can either use a duel event chain or war to claim it. 
If there is no one who can hold the title it is destroyed and all vassals return to being independent until someone worthy steps up to eb the next high king.

I would also add concepts of blood allegiances and blood enemies. Dynasties can declare a small amount of blood allegiances on other dynasties sharing the same faith. This gives a massive relation bonus, some events and a call to arms to any war started by either party without the need for marriages.
Blood enemies can be declared on dynasties sharing the same faith and work pretty much the opposite of blood allegiances giving you cbs against the dynasty and a whole range of nasty things you can do to each other plus raiding.
Blood allegiances and blood enemies can create relationship triangles between dynasties as if two of your blood allies are blood enemies with each other a decision must be made who to support resulting in a break of the allegiance for one with a massive relationship hit.
This will make managing a large vassal-base as a pagan quite hard as one has to manage both blood enemies and allegiances while also keeping in mind the various triangles they form. This will keep pagans extremely volatile with an extreme amount of drama and infighting as was historically the case.

[Rakonas]

Personally I liked Norse Mod's way of doing things. Crown Authority was replaced with different levels of respect. You required prestige to actually be respected enough by military vassals to get their levies, piety for religious vassals, etc.

[forsaken1111]

Personally I liked Norse Mod's way of doing things. Crown Authority was replaced with different levels of respect. You required prestige to actually be respected enough by military vassals to get their levies, piety for religious vassals, etc.

Oh that's an interesting way to do it. What about town/city vassals? Wealth?

[Wiles]

While conquering the world can happen more easily since ToG I would argue that the Norse aren't really that bad. As far as games go Crusader Kings II isn't that hard unless you stack the odds against yourself (which is always an option) and avoid "gamey" strategies. You can paint the map your nations colour from starting just about anywhere given enough time. A big thing with ToG is that you have an earlier start date which gives you lots of time to conquer the world.

[Rakonas]

ToG is certainly hard when you start near any of the countries with ridiculous special event troops, like if you were to start as the khazars next to all those tengri with thousands of troops yet you with none.