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[scriver]

Ah, I see what you mean now. Wouldn't count on it, it seems only rational that they would add more checks than that to see if the player has the DLC.

[Dutchling]

Well I assume they will do so (as the initial game had such checks as well, it was only after a patch that the playabe = yes/no was open for modders).
I meant that there might be plenty of people who think that you now need to pay for something that partially was there in the first place, especially if you consider that Muslim flavoured events and decisions that several modders added.

edit:

I'd say a Pagan DLC is very likely .

Yay

[EuchreJack]

Hm.

You can actually download all of those provinces in user mods (Balansegeng, for instance, and I think the original mod is something like African Expansion). I'm assuming they actually bought the rights to those mods from users (which is awesome, in a way), because it looks EXACTLY like AE, but that does make me wonder why I'd pay for something that's technically free already.

They don't have to buy the rights to mods.  I'm sure their forum rules state that by posting content on the Paradox forums, the users surrender all rights to the content to Paradox.  Ergo, they already own all mods posted on their forums.

Furthermore, modding a game is generally either a violation of the license that the user purchased, or is an expansion of the already copyrighted material.  Either way, the mod is the studio's by legal right.

Now, from what I've seen, the developer usually doesn't shut down mods of their games (in most cases, it would be a less-than-useless gesture, as it would irritate customers and the mod would just move to another website), so if a mod does provide everything their expansion provides, then users can decide whether to go official for cost or unofficial for free.

Even paying a modder to take down their mod so it won't compete with the official version is unlikely to be useful, as by that time enough copies are out there so somebody will host the unofficial mod somewhere.

As to this particular expansion, I'm on the fence about it.  If it has substantially more than the mods provide, maybe.  But if I can get the same or substantially the same from mods, then that is where I'll go.

[Dutchling]

It won't be a 100% copy as the devs already said that the region will be 'rich, but hard to reach', while so far in all mods the African provinces are piss poor. I also assume that the historical research of Paradox is better than the one of modders so that will probably be different as well.

@EuchreJack, the new African provinces really aren't the core of the dlc. They added it because 'the area looked a bit empty'.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

While I'm not 100% sure about this, I've come across sources that state that certain states within the Mali Empire was on a large fondation of gold. It didn't take expert mining to dig up nuggets for use in their art and culture and any new culture with a technology advance in mining could easily harvest gold stockpiles unthought by the native popultion.

Of course the distance between Africa and Europe was pretty much unthinkable by any European lord, as the crusades themselves took massive attrition.

[EuchreJack]

Despite what I quoted above, I was largely talking about the Muslim Expansion.  And in fact, I was mostly dispelling the myth that the modders would ever get anything from the publisher. 

From what I've read in their latest development diary, the Expansion will add a lot of atmosphere (new interface, new names for things, new events), but I'm not convinced any substantial meat is being added.  We'll see.

I also assume that the historical research of Paradox is better than the one of modders so that will probably be different as well.

Looking at the Paradox forums, I think a lot of people disagree with you there.  What with the "Game isn't historically accurate" threads and the "More Historical" mods, it seems Paradox's ability to do historic research is in dispute, whereas most modders are tend to be a bit anal about that sort of thing.  And modders who aren't are more responsive to mod fans who are.

To be fair, I think Paradox has a whole lot more important things to do than fiddle too much with historical accuracy, and I'd rather have a functional game improvement over a fix for historical accuracy.  So historical stuff doesn't get addressed in patches as much as other stuff.

[Rakonas]

While I'm not 100% sure about this, I've come across sources that state that certain states within the Mali Empire was on a large fondation of gold. It didn't take expert mining to dig up nuggets for use in their art and culture and any new culture with a technology advance in mining could easily harvest gold stockpiles unthought by the native popultion.

Of course the distance between Africa and Europe was pretty much unthinkable by any European lord, as the crusades themselves took massive attrition.

Yeah, the Gold-salt trade across the sahara was the main thing in those times, and the west african empires (Ghana, Mali, Songhai) were always known for their riches, like when Mansa Musa underwent the Hajj and destroyed the economy of Egypt by giving away gold leading to spiralling inflation. I worry that the game won't represent how difficult it is to cross the sahara with any real army though, as in real life there was only one successful military invasion across it, the one which made the area muslim.

[Grakelin]

I also assume that the historical research of Paradox is better than the one of modders so that will probably be different as well.

Looking at the Paradox forums, I think a lot of people disagree with you there.  What with the "Game isn't historically accurate" threads and the "More Historical" mods, it seems Paradox's ability to do historic research is in dispute, whereas most modders are tend to be a bit anal about that sort of thing.  And modders who aren't are more responsive to mod fans who are.

Stumbled across a webforum where the community was primarily from the Balkans, and they kept complaining about the possibility to form Kingdoms named for their hated enemies.

[Dutchling]

Ooh, can you link? I'm bored..

[RedKing]

Yeesh....dem Baltic pagans are a lot tougher than they were in CK1. Especially since they all tend to jump in if you're using a Holy War CB.

[Megaman]

Yeesh....dem Baltic pagans are a lot tougher than they were in CK1. Especially since they all tend to jump in if you're using a Holy War CB.

Fighting Muslims is harder as well,they all jump in when you use holy war. On the other hand, it works both ways.

[Paul]

Just had an interesting start. I started as the Duke of Moray using a custom ruler who I set as Welsh, with an eventual goal of spreading Welsh culture across the British Welsh Isles.

First thing I do is marry Margaret of Wessex. Then I jumped on the count of Buchan on a de jure claim, then plotted (successfully) to revoke his title giving me a third county. During that short war the wife got pregnant and had a son right after it was over. I immediately plotted to kill the wife, which my courtiers were eager to back up. One successful plot later and my son had a claim on England and I was marrying a younger, smarter, woman.

I declared war on England to put my two week old son on the throne, hired mercenaries, and set off with 2000 men and 20 ships against England & the HRE on one side, Norway moving in on Northern England, and Normandy moving up from the south.  I stayed coastal using hit and run tactics on the provinces that had recently been taken by Norway and Normandy, retaking them while they had small garrisons and fleeing to the ships if one of the huge armies approached. I also opportunistically stomped a few small (1k and below) armies that I spotted along the way, paying my mercenaries with the ransoms of the nobles I captured.

About five years into that the King of Scotland had forced the Duke of the Isles to join Scotland, which gave him a Duke that wasn't too happy with him. I immediately plotted to take the throne, and the new Duke was happy to join the plot. Within a week I sent the message to the King of Scotland, and he did something rather strange. He gave up the throne, then immediately revolted for his independence - with the count of Fife joining him after a few weeks. The Scottish army, now under my control, sieged and took over the former King's county - and once the war was over I revoked both his and the count of Fife's titles since they were traitors. I then recruited Fife's men for my own uses and moved that army, which was all total another 3200 men, down to join my group of now 1800 men in England.

Two more years of sieging, this time with lots of storming the castles with my larger force, and I had the King of England at 90% war score. And I had a revolt on my main province. Only 700 men, but I really needed my guys to finish off England while I had the chance - so I ignored them. By the time I had England at 100% war score they had taken the county, and RIGHT before I finished the war I suddenly got the event where one of your courtiers gets maimed by rebels - and of course it's the 7 year old son who is about to be King of England. I put my maimed son on the throne, then joined him in his wars against Normandy and Norway. With my 5k men and his 2k men we crushed both of the 5k stacks that were left of Norway and Normandy, and both of them accepted white peace. Less than a month later the son dies due to being maimed, and I inherit the throne. I had planned on letting the son keep it until he inherited Scotland, but it ended up the other way.

So there I was, ten years into the game at 1076, from Duke of Moray to King of England and Scotland. The vassals didn't seem to like this, and the big English dukes revolted. Luckily I still had the 5k stack in Moray after putting down the rebels, and another 3k English troops soon joined them. Over the next few years I stomped the rebels and imprisoned a few more before they could revolt, soon deciding on just imprisoning all the rebellious bastards. Within four years I had every single one of my vassals imprisoned, mostly during war, and I quickly imprisoned all of their vassals too via the option (they couldn't even revolt when I failed).

So what was I to do. All of my vassals hated me. The Pope hated me (imprisoning is tyrranical!). Well, If I'm a tyrant I might as well act like one. I checked my piety and checked the wealth of my vassals, realizing I had enough piety to banish most, but not all, of them. I banished all the wealthy ones, and stripped the titles from the poor ones. I was soon left with almost all of Great Britain in my personal demesne, and about 3500 gold in my coffers from all the confiscated wealth from the banished nobles. I picked a good sized personal demesne across the two wealthiest duchies and a few spots that hadn't had the ducal title formed yet (I had a super wife, so I could hold 12 lands) and revoked all the titles of the baron level vassals there, too.

Then I began inviting nobles to my court. It scales to income, and with the massive demesne penalties my income was zilch - so they only costed 1 gold each. Soon my court was overflowing with capable Welsh rulers (all with 13+ stewardship), who all really liked me and knew nothing of my tyrannical ways. I divided the land up with a few counts and a duke over them in every duchy, and soon all I had left was my personal demesne. I picked the remaining good rulers to manage my cities and extra castles and a few churches and then just randomly created the rest of the church rulers.

So here I am, year 1080, age 30, ruler of an entirely Welsh owned England and Scotland. All of my vassals absolutely love me. I have a 300 piety from giving back the church titles to new owners. I have over 3000 gold left over from robbing all the nobles. I still have 1200 prestige from winning all the wars. And to top it all off, my 10 year old heir inherited both positive traits from my new wife - Genius and Attractive - and he already has 15 stewardship even without an educational trait so he'll definitely be able to manage my big demesne. And half my duke vassals are Celibate (the game likes generating celibate nobles for some reason) so when they die off I'll be able to assign the lands to my dynasty if I want. The only downside is the Pope absolutely despises me for being a tyrant, so I'll probably be excommunicated soon.

Still, I don't think I've ever had a game where things have gone this good for me. If this luck keeps up the Pope will suddenly die off and be replaced with one that loves me before I get excommunicated.

[khantin]

Start up your very own anti pope, and keep him and his income on a leash until Christianity becomes imperiled.  Proceed to win all the coming crusades and become a saint.  After that.... I don't even know, but it seems like you can't fail.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

I'm not a fan of anti-popes, it degrades the authority of the church far too quickly and you have heretics breaking out everywhere. 

Also the ruler designer is one of the most disappointing DLCs I've bought. I just wanted to dick around with my charactor and get rid of that terrible moustache but apparently you can only modify charactors at the start of a campaign. A waste of money, should of researched it before I bought it. 

[Gantolandon]

I'm not a fan of anti-popes, it degrades the authority of the church far too quickly and you have heretics breaking out everywhere.

And that's bad? You get Holy War CB against the heretics, so it's like a big "Kick me" sign. Of course, this can explode in your face very quickly if that's 70-years old, loved, just Emperor with content vassals, but... isn't that !!fun!! ?