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[EuchreJack]

Idea!

Event: Player character demolishes walls around castle!
Cause:
Greed: Wanted to sell the building material for a quick buck.
Kind: Wanted to sell the building material to funds could be used to feed orphans.
Brave: Walls are cowardly, and brave men don't need walls!
Craven: Walls are scary, go away scary walls!
Lustful: Mistress told me to do it. Lunatic version: Banged those sexy walls too hard.
Chaste: Wife told me to do it. Lunatic version: Begone sexy walls lest I be tempted.
Wroth: Walls make me mad, me smash walls!
Patient: Walls weren't perfect, I need them gone so I can make them better later.
Proud: My glory shall not be hidden behind walls!
Humble: My peasants don't have walls, so neither shall I.
Trusting: I feel safe around my neighbors.
Paranoid: Nobody can hide on the other side of those walls from me!

Begone walls!

[Descan]

... It's still destroying your walls at random, which is annoying as hell to play.

Y'all aren't thinking of what it'd be like to actually PLAY the game, instead thinking only of "What sounds cool?" or "How can we shove more things in?" Like RP is all well and good but if it forces the player to do something, especially forces them to do something negative, then it shouldn't be in the game. Especially-especially if it's just a "lolyourolledbadly,goodbyemoney/walls/heir"

There's a reason the Comet event is the most infamous event in EU3. Just a random stability hit with no chance to fix it, you just had a bad dice roll among thousands.

[pisskop]

CKII is all about random chance.  Its a soft roguelike in that regard.

Its true players hate losing with no chance to avoid it or prevent it.  We arent talking about killing your dynasty.  At least I am talking about not being to roflstomp around as a playerr, ignoring all the what-should-be limiting traits a character has.

And spending 50 gold every 10 years isnt going to break you at levels of duke or higher.  Its implied you spend money every year for feasts, as a commonplace mundane event.  Its implied you hunt, as a commonplace event.

Looking at the history of kingdoms and lines of succession and the failings of kings, its pretty easy to avoid those as the player.

[Wysthric]

CKII is all about random chance.  Its a soft roguelike in that regard.

Its true players hate losing with no chance to avoid it or prevent it.  We arent talking about killing your dynasty.  At least I am talking about not being to roflstomp around as a playerr, ignoring all the what-should-be limiting traits a character has.

And spending 50 gold every 10 years isnt going to break you at levels of duke or higher.  Its implied you spend money every year for feasts, as a commonplace mundane event.  Its implied you hunt, as a commonplace event.

Looking at the history of kingdoms and lines of succession and the failings of kings, its pretty easy to avoid those as the player.

The issue is when random chance plays into a snowball effect of bad which become steadily less dependent on random chance to screw you over. That's the problem.

[WealthyRadish]

It's funny to hear CKII called random, when often the reason why I play it is to enjoy something that has barely any unpleasant random chance in it.

I think the comparison to EU3 Descan brought up here is very important to consider. EU3 and EU4 have events which have significant and immediate outcomes that are often completely random, or aren't random but are triggered by things completely out of the player's control. Throughout a campaign you randomly lose stability (costs a base of 100 admin to get back, often about 10 months get back), can lose an entire year's worth of income in an event (sometimes forcing you to take loans), or may lose 3-5 wars worth of prestige from a single event, etc. It starts to wear you down, and it's just not an enjoyable use of the system. CKII in comparison, has very small events. They happen about as frequently, but I can't think of a single event in CKII that fills me with dread the moment I see it pop up, like most unmodded events in Europa do. I really enjoy even the purely negative events, precisely because they don't have any major consequence, and I can get a chuckle out of it without thinking "if I get another stab hit, I'm savescumming and deleting half the event folders".

[Bouchart]

Smugglers rampant!

[Persus13]

Smugglers rampant!

At least most EU4 events give you some choice of bad stuff to choose. Except smugglers rampant, which sucks either way.

[Bouchart]

I think it was even worse in EU3.  The stab hit was 2, I think.

[Kot]

FUCKING COMETS
WHY THOSE CAN'T BE SHOOTING STARS AND BRING STABILITY INSTEAD?

[Teneb]

FUCKING COMETS
WHY THOSE CAN'T BE SHOOTING STARS AND BRING STABILITY INSTEAD?

Ironically, only in EU that comets are bad. Also, they cease to be bad if you have an astronomer (or whatever the name was. Natural scientist?) in your employ.

[Bouchart]

Yes there is a single, hard to activate Good Comet event in EU4.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Hetairos]

In Vic 2 comets give you a decent amount of research points.

[pisskop]

how is that game?  I saw it, thought neat, and then thought that I could just as soon not play it.

[Bouchart]

It's a bit weak without the expansions.

[EnigmaticHat]

Vicky 2 (with updates and expansions) is the best of the PGS games at domestic matters; you can have an interesting Vicky game without ever declaring war.  Which is good, because man are the war mechanics not particularly interesting.  Probably the weakest out of any game of the series, in the sense that its more of a pain in the ass to manage without being any more interesting.  Anyway, every country has access to raw resources, and populations that want raw and refined resources; you can get better access to raw resources by adding secondary powers to your sphere of influence, and produce refined resources by building factories.  You're racing to gather prestige, industry, and military might (all three of which are highly important).  If you do well you get to be a Great Power and Exert Influence over Lesser Peoples.  Which is great except people expect you to get involved in random conflicts that have nothing to do with you and you end up fighting world wars because some dirt farmers decided they wanted their land back from Russia.  If all that sounds fun, yeah, its worth buying.

Oh, and there's an internal politics management system where you and your populace have differing ideas about whether that Marx fellow was right in the head.  And sometimes you fight over it.  I can't decide if its an amazing system or a frustrating and useless one; the fandom is mixed.  Still, there's some pretty great alt-history stuff possible like Anarchist USA vs Facsist CSA.  Although most of it won't happen without player intervention.

Unrelated, but.  I kind of wish Parodox would make some kind of fantasy/post-apocalyptic/something-punk/otherwise not real life game where they shoved together much-simplified versions of Crusader Kings' dynasty management, Vicky's soft power/economy/prestige, and Hearts of Iron's combined arms warfare.  All of those games are really really good at one thing and kind of weak in the others.  With the exception of HoI which is weak at everything except war but its the only game were the war isn't mindless deathballing so there's that.

Or more plausibly, a game that combines Vicky 2's domestic system with HoI3's warfare and makes both of them significantly more usable and comprehensible, that would make me very happy.