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[Anvilfolk]

scriver, I only got the game recently. I admit to not having followed it's development until now. But even if they are adding content/features at each release, it doesn't seem like they are veering away from the "tons of semi-necessary DLC" strategy. I understand that it's the only way some indies can make it, but isn't Paradox big enough by now that they can support themselves without all this?

But again, these are personal opinions. They're related to how much you value games and your gaming experience.

[lordcooper]

As of this moment in time, there are six available DLCs for CK2.  Three are music, two are purely cosmetic and the other allows you to create your own ruler.  I wouldn't call any of these things semi-necessary.

[Lord Dullard]

If the West African part of the dlc is the same as the mods, I'm probably not going to buy it. Those mods felt really incomplete and the added land was basically worthless and filled with independent counts (which either looked like Arabs or zombies, depending on the mod) which never did anything at all.

I really hope PI makes the new area a bit special and not just Finland 2.0

Agreed. I play Balansegeng because of the balance fixes it provides, but Africa itself kinda sucks. I tried starting there once and it was just terribly tedious to get anything done.

My current game is actually as the king of Finland. It's... yeah. Despite being Pagan and having Warrior Cults and owning vastly more territory, if I even look at Sweden (who has annexed Denmark) the wrong way they just hire holy orders and go on a stomping spree across my territory. *Really* annoying.

[scriver]

I don't understand how you can call any of them nor the coming Muslim DLC even "semi-necessary". You have the "full" experience already. New features will be added to it for free with (seemingly) every new downloadable expansion, so you'll benefit from it even if you, to example, doesn't want to play as Muslims. In turn, it is the continual income from the DLC's that will make sure they can keep patching the game until it is as bugfree as possible (and if you know Paradox history you know they have had issues with having to abandoning the patching efforts of "minor" games before because it just wasn't economically feasible to continue on them - EU:Rome for example, was left hanging with game crippling bugs (that was caused by the latest patch no less) and is afaik only worked on in private by a single dev). Not only that, one of the other reason they switched to this new - "modular" as they call it - system is that it won't force you to buy expansion #1 and #2 in case you want expansion #3 and you will still receive patches for the original content/old expansions without having to buy the latest expansion, which was the case before. So in this aspect Paradox is actually forcing you to buy expansions/DLC's less now than they did before.

As for their company size... I think they're too big to be called Indie any more as well (though I'm also uncertain whether Paradox the Publisher is a separate company or not), but as I understand it they still hardly break even most of the time - they have a niche audience and a shaky reputation among non-fans, neither which makes for great sales. CK's unordinary long developing time was possible because the success of Mount&Blade, I believe (and/or possibly Magicka? Can't remember when that game was released), which was developed by a Turkish Indie studio and Paradox only published. So at least to me it seems like they would have trouble paying for the time they need in development from their own treasury alone.

[Anvilfolk]

Again, I might just be a cheap bastard. The thing is just that every time I considered buying HoI 3 (for instance) and read up about it, the general opinion was that you either got it with the expansions/DLC or it just wasn't worth it. It's a trend I just don't like. If this is the way they break even, then by all means do it. I like Paradox titles and don't want them to disappear. I just figured they were well enough economically enough for now.

[Kanil]

HoI3 was the most broken as fuck game out of the box that I've ever played from Paradox. Conversely CK2 is the most polished and functional Paradox game on day 1.

HoI3 needs expansions and a fuckton of fixing. CK2 does not.

[scriver]

The thing is just that every time I considered buying HoI 3 (for instance) and read up about it, the general opinion was that you either got it with the expansions/DLC or it just wasn't worth it.

This is basically what the new system will avoid - to some extent at least. In many previous games, both EUII and EU:Rome and apparently HoI3 as well (haven't played it myself, but it wouldn't surprise me, if that's what people say) the original content has been fun, but I guess bland or shortcoming in certain aspects. The expansions went indepth with these issues and the result was much better (especially true for EU:Rome, that game was basically pointless before the expansion if I recall correctly). So you either had to get them all or suffer through a "duller" experience.

However, with the new system, it seems they intend to keep adding features to the original game as well with each "big" DLC (and I can't say that for certain, of course, but since it was the case with the last one as well as the new Muslim one... You can at least hope). This will mean you won't have to keep buying the DLC's to get the "full" or at least "less dull" experience, as parts of the original game will get fleshed out as well for free. So, partly at least, it will be a better system for cheap people such as you and me

I apologise if I came of as coarse or angry above, as well. I realised after I posted it that it might have been a bit too aggressive, which really wasn't warranted.

[Rakonas]

If the West African part of the dlc is the same as the mods, I'm probably not going to buy it. Those mods felt really incomplete and the added land was basically worthless and filled with independent counts (which either looked like Arabs or zombies, depending on the mod) which never did anything at all.

I really hope PI makes the new area a bit special and not just Finland 2.0

I don't think that's going to be possibly a deciding factor on whether or not to buy. If I remember correctly, the dlc element of the game is designed such that there would be compatibility between those with and without the dlc. The new land area will probably come with the patch but be unplayable/unreachable without the dlc.

[Anvilfolk]

Totally OK, Scriver! Glad you said that though

This last post also cleared up what you meant (for me), since I'm mostly uninformed. I hope that's what you mean. And I heard wonders about the CK2 release as well. I will probably end up buying the DLC at bargain price in one of these crazy sales they do

[Dutchling]

Dev Diary

[Catastrophic lolcats]

Looks great. I'm liking their new method of DLC which blends paid DLC and free content. Also liking the expanding map. I have a vague feeling if we get a Pagan themed DLC that it might focus on opening up the Steppes a bit more.

[Dutchling]

I wonder if the only thing the DLC will do is add 'playable = yes' to the muslim part in religions.txt.
I wouldn't really have a problem with that, but I'm sure there are plenty of retards people on their forums who would, considering all the threads containing 'DLC' get derailed fairly quickly.

edit;

I just modded my game so you can always wage holy wars, unless you are in the same realm as the target. I wonder what the AI will do with this (it will be a handsoff game)

[Lord Dullard]

Did you let Pagans do it, too? If so, pretty soon Europe is going to be ruled by Witch Emperor Brinjolf.

Also, newest screenshots look like they don't match up to AE; good news, since it means I won't be getting a copy-paste of something I already have.

That's it for now. Next week I'll talk about polygamy, decadence, and strong and weak claims!

Now that sounds interesting.

[scriver]

First Sultans of Swing Feb diary came today. It also answer your wonder Dutchling and the answer is no. On the other hand, the trailer had already told as much

There's also a bit on the patch free content in the diary as well, if you scroll down.
Edit: Ah, I see it had already been posted. No wonder the last post sounded like it responded to it

[Dutchling]

Did you let Pagans do it, too? If so, pretty soon Europe is going to be ruled by Witch Emperor Brinjolf.

Yes, but I still need to fix the issue of others helping the defender is such wars, even if both are of the same faith.

It also answer your wonder Dutchling and the answer is no.

What you get with the Sword of Islam is simply the ability to play as the Muslim rulers, but all the new mechanics will be there and running for the AI (or other players in multiplayer) even if you don't have the expansion.

The answer seems to be yes actually.