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[notquitethere]

Pacts rather than allies?

[Teneb]

Pacts rather than allies?

Also diplomacy below claims. Non-marriage alliances, I'm guessing.

[notquitethere]

The diplomacy bit has always been there (it says who you're currently at war or have a truce with). Non-marriage/dynasty alliances would hopefully open up more productive politics with heretic kings that won't marry your daughter.

[Teneb]

The diplomacy bit has always been there (it says who you're currently at war or have a truce with). Non-marriage/dynasty alliances would hopefully open up more productive politics with heretic kings that won't marry your daughter.

Right, I forgot, sorry.

[Majestic7]

So they will just tweak diplomacy and we will still never have naval combat. Boo.

[pisskop]

naval  combat would be ackward at best.  youd have to redraw map tiles and draw up mechanics and add new ships and god help the ai.  And you when aztecs, byzantines, or hosts come knocking.

id hate to see RTW ship combat in CKII

[RedKing]

There's also the problem of drastically different levels of naval prowess in different parts of the world at this time. Northern Europe, ship-to-ship combat was basically not a thing. Which is why the Vikings had it so easy raiding Britain and France. In the Mediterranean they had retained some of the Roman knowledge of galleys and naval combat, while the Byzantines were rather adept and had developed the dromon. And eventually the Venetians and Genoese developed the modern Italian galley.

By contrast, the French Navy didn't exist as a formal entity until the 16th century. The English had a large transport navy, even in the Dark Ages, but did not have a navy built for naval combat until the 16th century as well. The Battle of Sluys (1340) saw a French fleet assembled largely from Venetian galleys hired by Phillip of Valois vs. an English fleet of merchant cogs which had been pressed into service by Edward III and outfitted with wooden archer towers. And the battle was largely naval combat of the style seen in China -- shallow water, ships trade missile fire and then lash the boats together to create a floating mini-battlefield which was won by hand-to-hand fighting rather than naval tactics.

It would be hard to accurately simulate that. Or to gauge how a ramshackle English navy of cogs would fare against a Byzantine dromon fleet. In shallow, calm water like much of the Mediterranean, the dromons should decimate the cogs. In the open waters of the Atlantic, the cogs should run circles around the dromons. Or even just withdraw a distance and wait for the enemy to sink in the choppy water. IIRC, EU3 had penalties for galleys in non-coastal water and bonuses in coastal water, but even that's a gross oversimplification. The coast of Scotland is not the same as the coast of Greece.

[Innsmothe]

1014 A.D (Viking start]
Playing as the Egyptian empire (nay Abyssinia). I have as well as the entire coast of east Africa; Aragon, Sardinai, Sicily, Venice, Crete, Sltn of Africa, Sultn Syria, Mosul, Bagdad, Emirate of medina.
All Kingdoms are familial Viceroyals... But sll but Sicily and aragon are plotting independence due to me having to lock up many of their freaking perverse sons.

Abasids have lost the Caliphate to the Umayyads...Which control Spain and Morocco. The HRE is united but missing Lotharingia and Italy.
The British Isles are amess of Lollards, Scandinavia is infighting, The Jews of Khazar control from Ukraine to almost the reaches of mongolia..which is sunni. The indian princes haven't changed..

Playing is so frustrating, as I have to go out of my way to stay over 100 piety. If I didn't have the Mamluks I would be screwed.

[Grim Portent]

So the Norse Byzantines have finally gotten access to Great Holy Wars, and I'm aiming to take the remains of Spain from the Muslims. Amusingly the remaining Christians in Europe spend more time fighting each other than they do me, though my vassals can't wage war on them anymore due to maxed crown authority, which I intend to lower later to speed up the expansion of the Empire.

All of Africa West of Egypt and North of Mali is now part of my lands, as are all the lands of Europe along the border with Slavs. Once the Umayyads are finished off I intend to sweep the Africans away in a tide of viking fury. After that I will take the sword and the axe to the men of the cross who dwell to the South of the land of Egypt.

[pisskop]

See, the chase has always been more fun than the kill.  Once I become capable of curbstomping those around me I tend to get bored.  I deleted my narly finished sicily run an my wendish empire run.  Will go looking for more funsies eventually.

[RedKing]

Rule the world from the Republic of Iceland. DO EET...

[pisskop]

oh old gods.  Challenge accepted.

[pisskop]

Norse Vestisland Merchant Republic Playthrough


I will be playing from a seat of power in vestisland, and I will be founding a republic over a whodad.

conduct
-hard difficulty
-no restarts
-become merchant republic
-rule from only vestisland
-customized gen0 ruler, attractive, quick, cruel, stressed, wounded, patient, 1 point in martial and stewardship, and lvl2 intrique education.  Aged 30.



-769
     I begin by hiring all the holy men I can and a few nobles, to maximize my starting council.  I spend a few coins on randomized females as well, so that I can marry off the males on my council when they get that ambition.
     I place my diplomat to get a claim on some island for later, and my steward to raise troops.  We will wait for a bit to attack our neighbor despite outnumbering him.  But not too long or he might gain competence in arms.  His current heir is worth a whooping 0 martial, himself worth only 3.
   I was peacefully trying to kill my opponent and spy on my councilors to get the 'impaler' trait that would match well with my 'cruel' trait when the game informed me about my peacemongering ways.  So I quickly finished up my spying, took my moral-killing trait, and wiped the floor with my neighbor with my 20% extra moral damage, 20 more troops, and better base martial skill.  In 773 I became the sole holder of the duchy of Iceland.
     At age 34, money is still a huge problem.  I cant gain tech points passively until I become a duke, and I cant until I get the 200 gold required to create the title.  I also have already snagged shipbuilding 1 from the military screen, and will probably build a docks the moment I get 75 gold.  I also cant look forward to many wars now.  Maybe I can ask to join them?  But Im effectively isolated for the near future.
     In 775 I switch my focus from intrigue to business.  I almost immediately get the 'mint coins' event, which of course I gobble up the option to gain 100 gold.  I immediately begin constructing the shipyard.  In the meantime I have offered to join a war to subjugate Norway.  It seems that like me, hfarn of hoffland has spotted a perceived weakness in a neighbor.  Unlike me, however, he was only able to secure one providence before both armies met on the field of battle.  They appear to have obliterated each other, and now the war is stagnant, with -35% warscore for battles fought, and +20% for occupied lands.  Not that I care, and besides, svijold can handle the early attack.




Oh dear, I think this will be an easy unification job.  I havent married yet because I want genetic goodness.  The only viable target for marriage is an attractive priest, and nope, I dont like the idea of my chillins hanging out in another court.  Besides Im too young to start the gavelkin babymaking machine.

[RedKing]

Yeah, I played around with this a bit after I suggested it.

I tried as Austisland the first two times (because I think "Drake" sounds better as a mighty house than "av Island"). Both times my startign character had ZERO martial skill, while my neighbor was double-digits. So that didn't work.

Tried the third time as Vestisland, and now my Austisland neighbor has a 9 martial. FML. Ok, so I figure I'll wait and see how it goes, maybe try to assasinate him or wait for him to die and catch him at a moment of weakness, then subjugate him. Six months into the game, one of my courtiers (who stood to inherit, since I hadn't had time to produce offspring) snuck a viper into my bed. Game over. (Do they even HAVE snakes in Iceland?)

The lack of any ships to begin the game with is rough, because you can't go raiding, so you're doomed to prestige drain for quite a while (unless you can luck out and join somebody else's war in name only). But I figure once you have sole control of the island and some boats, you can pick and choose weakened targets all over Northern Europe. Just keep the balance of power stable in Norway so that no king arises and decides he wants your land.

You'll probably have to convert to Catholic early on to become a Republic. Raid some Christian lands, steal a concubine or two, and then let her sweet-talk you to Jesus.

[pisskop]

it is a rough start.  The rolled events helped me greatly.  Especially rolling 2 military techsteals in a row so quickly and then rolling a minting soon after to build the fleet to go raiding to declare war to build market towns.    I have a level 2 market town already and my capital is now like 3.5x more productive.

But at worst you only would have to wait until the viking script event to get shipbuilding.



     In the meantime, I go on an expedition to the one of the 5 lesser patriarchs of the byzantine empire and set up a profitable agreement with him.  We both make money and I get a chance to explore my character's pretty decent stats. [pic 2]  More mintings come my way as my fervor for money over religion and even the quality of my coinage increases, and market towns are erected here and there.  In
     In June 777 I gained the title King of Iceland, and now can gain tech points.  I also have time to re-accumulate wealth as it cost me all my money.  However, I do have lvl1 markets in both my settlement, weaponsmiths in both, and am only waiting for enough boats to launch an attack on my claimed neighbor.  5 boats.  I will switch my ambition from 'get married' to 'become king if it becomes a thing, which it might at this rate.
     When I have sufficient boats I conduct the first viking raid in 778, returning with 6.47 gold stolen from under the nose of the Christian tribal king of Pictland.  Whee!
     In febuary 781, I roll 2 mint events in a row and the King of Pictland somehow incorporates the closest landmass to me, claiu, into his nation.  He has an army estimated to be 1.53k troops, but I don't know how he thinks he'll come to the island's aid without ships or facilities or the technology to build them . . .  First I exploited his war to loot over 20 tons of gold from the country, then I'm taking his loose-leaf holdings!  The island was more defensible with an independent viking ruler than whatever weak-kneed Christian they have running affairs!
     While besieging the island of Caliu from the king of Pictland I set up a betrothal with the count of Vermaland.  His 10 year old daughter is likely going to be my best chance at a good marriage.  We take the islands off England and return to base to equip a raiding party bound for Brittany.  We cant hope to beat the 2.3k troops of Mercia and Pictland, but we can raid while we wait for our warscore to bump up.  666 troops head out for Brittany, whose only neighbors are the lonely oceans and the French epmpire.
     In winter of 783 the ai suddenly took back its islands.  They got boats.  Okay.  My men we out raiding the french, and went back to take the land.  While taking it, the Pictish army tried an amphibious assault in the winter of 784.  With 1.4k troops the Pictish army stormed the frozen beaches of caliu and ran straight into King Pisskop of Island, whose training in his homeland led him to expertise in winter warfare.  Using his superior tactics, King Pisskop won, scattering 900 of the original 1.4k with his modest force of 620 troops.  Thge survivors were easy picking once they fell out of formation; they couldn't stand up to our loosely organized squads.  We returned the army to Island to regroup and camp until Pictland gives up.