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[micelus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o0QPD6qHMG4


Just something to whet your appetites. Nothing really major.

[Aklyon]

Interesting, that is.

[Lord Dullard]

Hm.

You can actually download all of those provinces in user mods (Balansegeng, for instance, and I think the original mod is something like African Expansion). I'm assuming they actually bought the rights to those mods from users (which is awesome, in a way), because it looks EXACTLY like AE, but that does make me wonder why I'd pay for something that's technically free already.

What I'm really wondering, though, is how this is really different from playing as Christians/Pagans. I mean, did they improve the Jihad somehow? Did they add additional Muslim-only events? I want to know what I'm getting that I can't just download via the usermod forum, because from what I saw in the video, I've already pretty much got all of that via mods (added traits, the African expansion, etc), and hell, you can already turn Muslim characters on with some *very* simple tinkering.

That said, I will be buying this if there's anything I can't get for free already. I didn't get the ruler mod thing just because I though it was silly and unnecessary (and again, basically free if you can mod even a little bit), but if they're offering something with even a little original content and functionality, it's worth it to support them. IMHO this is easily the best game of 2012 so far by a longshot.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

The expansion was released really fast which leads me to believe they were already working on it at release or that they've bought and/or studied some of the modding community's efforts. I assume the former more than the latter however.

I remember reading a post that they said it would be akin to the Europa Univeralis expansions like Heir to Throne, themed in some way and which the majority of the content is focused on while still adding different content outside of that. 
The trailer reveals there will be muslim only events, muslim only stats, a new improved combat system, new muslim kingdoms/empires (hopefully we'll get some European ones as well) muslim sprites/UI and a larger map.
If they went all out it may be possible that there's "de jure" muslim kingdoms to be formed in Europe. Iberia is of course a no-brainer.

It looks like playing muslim will be much different due to the amount of protental pretenders and the weak/strong claim system.
No additional information on the Jihad system but judging by the way the muslim UI has it's own religion tab I would say it would be improved and balanced for the player. Not quite sure how they'll modify the religion system since it was fairly different to Europe, I'm thinking rulers can and will often be religious leaders.

It doesn't seem to be that uncommon with Paradox that the expansions "lag" behind the awesome modding community. But each expansion adds it's own features and fixes that adds even more for the modders to play with and modify. EU3 is a perfect example of that.

I've got a feeling that save games won't carry over so I'll have to make my glorious Irish Empire owned Holy Lands all over again. Dues Vult!

[Vel]

Hm.

You can actually download all of those provinces in user mods (Balansegeng, for instance, and I think the original mod is something like African Expansion). I'm assuming they actually bought the rights to those mods from users (which is awesome, in a way), because it looks EXACTLY like AE, but that does make me wonder why I'd pay for something that's technically free already.

Not to be pedantic but.. 'bought the rights'? I love modders, but they're the ones using Paradox's code to (with simplified text files and such) produce content.

I hardly think they have any 'rights' that need to be purchased.. as a professional studio, I imagine it would be very simple and relatively quick for them to put their staff on creating the same content with their own work.

I /love/ modders, being not a modder myself.. but let's assign credit where it's due: Paradox made all the really, truly, need-to-pay-people-to-do-it hard framework for that stuff. Mods are tremendously appreciated efforts but still based on that true, economically unsustainable without charging work. Just look at the truly above and beyond in all ways mods from previous works; Paradox provides them license to truly develop a game based on the base engine themselves and charge for it with them as publisher. They're all for relatively older games -- because doing work to modify an existing code which you should legitimately be justified in charging real money for takes a /long/ time, not a month.

Edit - (Which is to say, I understand the basics of how modding works in Paradox games, having healthfully delved into modding the .txt files myself, but not done the advanced work that the more Real, ambitious modders work with)

[mainiac]

Playing as a greek duke I had one of my daughters educated by an ethiopian expat and she ended up turning ethiopian too late for me to get her to change back.  I managed to secure her a matrilinal marriage to the heir of the d'Hautville dynasty.  For some reason she was going through a rebellious phase after this marriage and refused to convert back to orthodox Christianity (playing with a mod that makes coptic a full religion not heresy).  So she has a son born who I manage to turn greek but who's father and grandfather die before he can become an adult and I can diplomatically convert him to orthodox.  Meanwhile the Norman duchies in southern italy have become a bit unusual.  End result is that there is now a coptic greek duke ruling over territory that is primarily Norman orthodox and greek catholic but his territory is being run by his ethiopian orthodox regent mother.  His next door neighbor is an italian orthodox duke who rules over greek catholic territories.  There are still some Italian catholic provinces left in the D'Hautville inheritance though.  They must have no bloody clue what's going on.

[Lord Dullard]

Not to be pedantic but.. 'bought the rights'? I love modders, but they're the ones using Paradox's code to (with simplified text files and such) produce content.

I suspect it doesn't matter much when the content matches THAT closely. Those provinces are literally a tit-for-tat matchup to what's in AE. Go download 1.05f + AE (or Balansegang) yourself and see what I mean.

[Vel]

Not to be pedantic but.. 'bought the rights'? I love modders, but they're the ones using Paradox's code to (with simplified text files and such) produce content.

I suspect it doesn't matter much when the content matches THAT closely. Those provinces are literally a tit-for-tat matchup to what's in AE. Go download 1.05f + AE (or Balansegang) yourself and see what I mean.

They definitely are likely exactly the same named provinces


since, you know, actual real history and all.

That doesn't mean Paradox should have to cowtow if they are doing their own, legitimate work in adding the content themselves. They are just as legitimate as any modder, except that they even made the original tools. If they were literally /taking/ the work that a modder did, physically with their fingers, I would 110% be on board that they should be paid, but..

Paradox made the tools

it's history

There's no reason Paradox couldn't do it themselves, nor any indication that they wouldn't write it in themselves on their own paid time.

[Lord Dullard]

 

Okay, my point was not 'zomg these modders should be PAID'. It was 'I think Paradox may have used this stuff directly because they thought it was cool and brought these modders on board'. The shot of the African provinces matches up EXACTLY, and you'd see what I mean if you actually went and investigated, rather than just had a knee-jerk response. There are a million and one ways Paradox could have fleshed out North Africa, and it's unlikely it'd look precisely the same as a mod. Not impossible, but unlikely.

I could be wrong, but there's no reason to be such dorks about it.

At any rate, I'll still be buying it if it looks even marginally interesting. Like I said, CK2 is an awesome game, and they deserve the money (although I'm annoyed I didn't buy it in that crazily cheap Amazon bundle instead of getting it at the original full price, but... eh, same thing, the money will go towards a good cause).

[Anvilfolk]

I hate DLC. It used to be all this "it takes a month or two" things came out with the original game or were added soon after it was released. Now, in order to enjoy a Paradox game, you have to fork over for the TONS of DLC to get "the whole game"... I mean, geez. It can't be that much new stuff... it'd be fine for one game or two, but it's now company policy: the EU series (what is it now, 5 DLC packs?), HoI series (3 or 4?), now the CK series. I eventually only get them when the "complete collections" go on sale... I understand the original releases of sequels are usually somewhat underwhelming: updated graphics/engine, same game, less features.

But then, I hate the idea of continuously having to pay money to play a game. That's why I don't play MMO's.

[Aklyon]

Isn't that the same as expansion packs, just on a shorter timescale?

[Anvilfolk]

Expansion packs, DLC... I don't feel there's much difference these days. I never feel there's enough there to warrant the prices they ask for it. I might just be a cheap bastard, in all honesty

[Domenique]

If they went all out it may be possible that there's "de jure" muslim kingdoms to be formed in Europe. Iberia is of course a no-brainer.

I thought muslims only respected de facto rather than de jure, and so did byzantines, or am I wrong?

[scriver]

Anvilfolk, you do realise they added a lot of stuff for free with the patch that came at the same time as the character editor, right? And that they at least says there'll be new stuff in the next patch as well?

[Dutchling]

If the West African part of the dlc is the same as the mods, I'm probably not going to buy it. Those mods felt really incomplete and the added land was basically worthless and filled with independent counts (which either looked like Arabs or zombies, depending on the mod) which never did anything at all.

I really hope PI makes the new area a bit special and not just Finland 2.0