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[Rakonas]

I disagree, I think this brings the gameplay more in line with historical reality.

While it is true that the French "Empire" did not have vassal kings, it did have Dukes ruling duchies that are the size of some of the CK2 "Kingdoms" (Duke of Brittany, Duke of Tolouse)

I'd see it more as being having too many direct vassals limits the authority you can have, rather than authority limiting the number of direct vassals you can have.  Having a duke rule part of your Kingdom meant that the vassals in that area had a local executor of the King's will (and authority).   A king was physically distant from parts of a massive kingdom, and would have trouble keeping tabs on subjects, and would not develop the personal relationships with local nobility that are necessary to develop the interpersonal loyalty feudalism relied on.  Imagine if you had someone working for you who lived 600 miles away, and the only way to check up on their work was to ride a horse.

I Imagine you'll still be able to play Empire level rulers without having vassal kings, but you'll end up with some dukes who have equivalent power to a small kingdom.

The thing is that the game should be simulating how kings increased their power over the course of the period, eventually creating what we would call states around the EU startdates (or a century in). Instead of having that internal power struggle with kings siding with burghers and such against nobles in order to limit feudal tradition and gain increased power, the game is just making high/absolute CA to be not at all a viable choice.

[Wiles]

It might be an inelegant solution, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that high crown authority will be non viable. I've always found it to be less of a hassle to manage a smaller number of vassals. The practice of destroying titles and only having counts for vassals always seemed a bit gamey to me.

[Vgray]

Hmm. Some people over at the paradox forum reason that it's easier to enforce your laws when the kingdom is made up of a handful of superdukes. I think that's what they were trying to say anyway.

[Duuvian]

Seems ok to me. Maybe adding a Centralization option alongside Crown Authority would have been better but I guess we'll see how it works out. Currently I only go as high as needed for Primogeniture and then lower it to Medium as soon as I can.

I hope you'll be able to make the next higher level of title once you have two of the level you are currently on. That's what I've been looking forward to. It'll make Poland starts a lot easier in The Old Gods.

It'll also keep me from neglecting to form a second Duchy or Kingdom title in non Primogeniture realms.

[BFEL]

But guys, what about North Korea? WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO GLORIOUS LEADER NOW?

[Rolan7]

I'll be even more content with gavelkind if I can make an empire out of Wales and Ireland!  In fact I might miss the challenge of conquering 80% of Scandinavia/Britannia with only one kingdom title (or desperately trying to finish the conquest before my death).

[umiman]

But guys, what about North Korea? WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO GLORIOUS LEADER NOW?

If you scroll back a page or two you'll see me running NK just fine even with the current system. The new one won't change anything.

Unless they nerf the money that Barons make or something.

[Rakonas]

They could be including barons in the vassal limit. But it's idiotic to make changes directed to a specific rarity like NK mode that would have negative side effects for the actual 99% of play.

[kaian-a-coel]

They could be including barons in the vassal limit. But it's idiotic to make changes directed to a specific rarity like NK mode that would have negative side effects for the actual 99% of play.

Baron-level vassal limit is desmesne limit no?

[umiman]

It's mentioned that the vassal limit isn't a hard cap rather you just incur penalties if you go over like the demense limit.

Since in NK mode you don't care about these penalties, it won't change anything.

[Rakonas]

When it comes to demesne you incur penalties that hurt your tax and levy size, eventually reducing it to 0. It stands to reason that vassal limit can do the same to the tax and levies you get from baronies.

They could be including barons in the vassal limit. But it's idiotic to make changes directed to a specific rarity like NK mode that would have negative side effects for the actual 99% of play.

Baron-level vassal limit is desmesne limit no?

Having baron level vassals doesn't affect your demesne limit, no. You can have 6 baron vassals in one county and it's just the one county that counts as your demesne limit.

[Wiles]

I managed to catch some of the live stream. Here are some of the interesting bits.

- They are getting rid of the assassinate button entirely while making plotting to kill someone through intrigue more interesting. For example if you're being plotted against you can go into hiding (which will make you safer at the cost of negative diplomatic modifiers).

- Retinues have been nerfed (250 instead of 500 )

- Christians/Muslims/Indians start as feudal, the rest will use the new tribal system.

- If you are tribal you can choose to become either a merchant republic or a feudal realm depending on the decisions you make. Tribal holdings use prestige instead of money to upgrade their tribal holdings. Tribals have to call their vassals into war like allies, meaning your vassals can decline sending troops to fight for you if they don't like you.

- The research system has been overhauled again, I missed some of this but the gist I got from the bit I saw was that they're moving things around so that players aren't just researching the techs that were way better than the other ones (like legalism).

- The laws screen has been changed, I missed a bit of this part too, but I did see that there is a new centralization option which is a choice between more vassals or a larger demesne.

- Regency will be more interesting with more events and decisions.

- Decadence is being tweaked again.

- There is a new feature called the Chronicle which records interesting events in your realm.

- Secret bears still haven't been added

The release date was given as "somewhere between now and the heat death of the universe". It looked and sounded like there was still a lot of work to do. Given that CKII only has a 4 man team I'm guessing it might be a while before we get our hands on it.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

- The laws screen has been changed, I missed a bit of this part too, but I did see that there is a new centralization option which is a choice between more vassals or a larger demesne.

 

[umiman]

Ah, that's good.

Edit: OH NO MAH RETINUES!!!! NOOOO!!!

[RedKing]

The vassal limit thing makes sense to me. If you have an empire with seventy dukes, it becomes difficult to enforce your will upon all of them. If anything, you're even more dependent on them to run the Empire. Create a handful of kings to rule over a handful of duchies each, and it's easier to manage. Of course, when you die and your son turns out to be a weak-willed wimp....well that's how we ended up with a Europe full of kingdoms, and not Pax Carolingia.


Can't help but think of this exchange from Star Wars:

"The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."
"That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"
"The Regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line."